Highlights from The Exam Man podcast, Series 3 Episode 1
To launch Season 3 we chatted to Geraldine Josefiak, who for 9 years has been the Exams Officer at HMP Norwich. We discover that it’s a complex role and flexibility is key, as prisoners are often there for short stays, moved without warning or unavailable at critical times due to the workings of the justice system. Geraldine also has a passion for supporting students and develops practical resources to manage exam anxiety and increase confidence. There is also a surprising revelation that John has spent time in prisons!
To start with could you just tell us a little bit more about yourself and your background and how you came to be an Exams Officer?
I was originally trained as a primary school teacher. I went to Froebel Institute in Roehampton many years ago. I ended up teaching craft for adult education for quite a few number of years, and reminiscence. And it got to a point, I suppose about 20 years ago or so when I just thought that wasn't going to be enough for me. I needed to do something a little bit different. So I did what nobody should be doing. I gave up the job without another job to go to. I also sold the family home in the countryside in Norfolk near The Broads. And I decided to move to Norwich and see where life might take me. It was a big change. I had a belief that something would come up for me.
What came up was that I was just looking through the papers one day and I saw an ad for a Careers Guidance Worker at my local prison, which is HMP Norwich, which happens to be a 10-minute walk away, which is absolutely perfect. I went for the interview and they said we'd like you to run all our English and maths assessments. So that's how I started. I wasn't actually an Exams Officer then, but I was in the prison. After about five or six years of doing that, the Exams Officer left. I'd got a little bit of an idea of what Exams Officers did but, as you know, there's nothing like stepping into a role and finding out that you know nothing really.
How long have you been in the role then as an Exams Officer?
I've been in the role about nine years now and it's changed a lot. It was quite small to begin with. Obviously, as you know, the prisons are pretty full, and as more and more people came through, there were more options that we offered them and more opportunities for them to do exams.
And so do you do the careers guidance work as well? Or did you stop doing that when you became an Exams Officer?
I stopped doing that. I left behind all what they call the MEAs, which is the Maths and English Assessments, to another area of the prison and I moved just into exams, which is where I've been ever since. It's a non-stop job, as you can imagine and it's also unpredictable. You don't quite know what to expect every day. I guess much like being in a school, but then I've never done this job in a school. Prison is the only place that I know.
Can I just ask what it was like moving into working in prisons? Because obviously that's quite a big change, isn't it, for anybody to work in that environment? What did you find interesting, difficult, about that change?
I had some idea of what to expect, and because I hadn't worked in schools directly, I didn't really know what was going to be in front of me, apart from the noise, and the unpredictability. The students, or learners as we call them, didn't necessarily want to come and do exams, but were there to take part in education, either because the governor had said, this is something that we want you to do, guys, or because they've just decided either it’s something for them to do to get out of their cells, or actually because they wanted to do something different and make a change in their lives. So there are all kinds of different facets of why people end up in our education department.
And I look on it as my job to not just do the admin, but to be there as a listener, someone who's encouraging, just giving time to someone who might want to spend some time talking. Because, you know, often they just don't have the time to have someone face to face with them to listen, and they don't want answers, just someone to listen to their concerns that are coming up and what's going on for them.
Could you talk us through a bit about the practicalities as well, Geraldine? How many qualifications are you running?
How many different types of exams might you be entering students for? The main thing that we do is English and Maths. That's a big push in prisons. The governor wants everybody to try and get to a level one, certainly an entry three. And we don't just offer English and Maths. We do vocational skills. We have quite a large contingent of foreign nationals as well, so we do ESOL exams. We do Health and Safety, Food Safety, so they can work in the kitchens and go and get a job outside. And we do a number of other things as well. But English and Maths is our main focus.
And it's always changing. We're always bringing in new things. We've got digital skills in IT and graphics. And of course, personal awareness and personal development is a big thing for us in prisons to try and educate the learners into things like drugs and alcohol awareness and also handling money because many of them may not ever have had a bank account or been proficient at handling money. Also we do things on emotions and relationships and things like that.
And those courses, the personal development courses, are those assessed as well within the prison?
Yes, they can get a qualification on that. They can come to class, which is a certain number of weeks. But we also do some of those units so that they can work through workbooks in their cells. And then we have outreach teachers who will go and see them on a regular basis and help them to complete their workbooks and talk through anything that comes up. I'm guessing, Geraldine, that from an exam centre point of view, the prison operates like a school would in terms of being an exam centre.
So you have a JCQ inspection, access arrangements, things like that? Does that all work the same?
Definitely. We're very much governed by JCQ. It all works exactly the same - all the access arrangements, all the one-on-one, the assessments. If someone needs to be assessed for extra time or separate invigilation, all those kinds of things. We have to put that through our team so that the learners can get assessed to give them the extra help and support that they need. We have to keep our exams in the same way to avoid any maladministration, locked cupboards, and so many people handle it and see it and touch it and all of that. So yes, JCQ is right behind us, and with City & Guilds for English and Maths, we follow all their guidelines. While I've been there, we've never actually had a JCQ inspection, that's because people can't turn up unexpectedly. Everybody has to be planned for, they have to have gate passes, they have to have approval. So, while I've been there, JCQ has never come and inspected.
That's fascinating. So, if you're an Exams Officer who doesn't like the JCQ inspection, then this is your next move!
I can't guarantee that that will always be the case! That's certainly been the situation now. But of course, we have to keep to all the right policies and make sure that everything's safe. In all the years that I've been doing the Exams Officer role, there's only been once when there's been an issue where I thought someone is not behaving appropriately and I need to take this forward. We can obviously get them searched because we have officers around on the landings. So it's just a different process of how you will deal with this situation.
How do they actually physically sit the exam? Presumably, they're taking them at slightly different times or in different rooms? How does that work?
It's very different from schools where you have your general summer series, where you'd have an awful lot of students all at once. We're what they call a remand prison, which means that we're a local prison. So most of the offences that people are with us for have happened within a reasonable area of where we are in Norwich. In general, they're waiting for a court case to come up. So we never know how long they're going to be with us. Some may have been sentenced. But what that means for us is that suddenly you might get a teacher or someone saying, Miss, I'm out tomorrow, or I've got court tomorrow or next week or... And that means we have to do very quick turnarounds. So for English and Maths particularly, through City and Guilds we have what they call on supply or pre-demand, where we can have them all sourced in the prison and then we just go and select them and package them up as we need them. So that's a very good system for us.
Do you do any qualifications where the exams are on a designated day at a particular point in the year, or are all your qualifications the ones where you can do exams on demand?
They have to be all on demand for the very reason that we've got a very fluid population. We never know that someone's going to be here definitely in two weeks or three weeks or four weeks or, you know, certainly not for a period of time. So we have to work on what is the situation today. What that means for me is that even though I might do all the admin and the setup and the planning and the booking and all of that, invariably, people don't turn up. They're not there or they're sick or they're in court or they're having some other kind of interview in different parts of the prison. So I'm continually catching up and re-booking. You must be the most flexible Exams Officer, the amount of different things that you have to think about and respond to.
Would the way that you do things at Norwich be fairly typical of other prisons, or does the fact that it's a remand prison make it different?
It's fairly typical. The Education Department, where I am, is a private company, People Plus, and they work in a number of prisons. And the governor will have a budget to decide what he or she wants to deliver in his prison because they're responding to the situation locally and, and to what they think that their prisoners might need. So I can't say that it's the same. It will change and it will change after a period as well, when governors might test something out and see that it might not be working for us. We might need to put some different things in. We do a lot of construction courses, painting and decorating and things like that, and CSCS (Construction Skills Certificate Scheme) cards so that the guys can get into the building trade. So there's a lot of practical things that we do as well. We gear it to what we think that our guys are going to want to need when they get out. I'm presuming you see people coming back, so repeat offenders.
This is obviously going to be anecdotal rather than based on any data, but do you have a sense of, if they've come through your system and gained qualifications, whether they're less likely to come back? Have you noticed that?
There's always going to be a small cohort of people who will come back. And what's interesting is that sometimes when they come back, they will know people within the prison. And it's almost like a regathering, not quite a party, but they know people, they know the officers, they know people there. We try to give them qualifications and experiences so that they choose not to come back. But it just depends on how life pans out for them and the support they get on the outside, doesn't it?
When the learners are sitting the exams, are they supported by the officers to do that? During the exam, how does that work? We have invigilation in schools, how does that work in prison?
The officers are very much there from a security point of view. The company People Plus provides all the education, so it's generally down to me and a small group of people that I've trained as invigilators in the prison, who do all of that. Just to be clear then, your team of invigilators, are they people who already work in the prison? Yes, because you have to imagine the logistics of trying to get someone in just to come and do an exam. There's so much waiting, there are so many gates, there's so much time, and we can't guarantee that actually if they come in to be an invigilator as an outside person, that that exam will actually take place.
A couple of years ago, we did have one or two lovely people who came in from outside to invigilate because they wanted to, because they wanted to support us. But invariably, they would come in and things would be scuppered in some way - it wouldn't take place, the guy wasn't there. So we just had to say eventually that we'd have to try and keep it in house, using either our admin that I can train up, or our teachers who aren't teaching those students for that particular course, so that we could provide the service that we need to. But invariably, it is me. So therefore, because I'm doing that, I have a lot of restrictions, as you will know, on what I can touch as far as exams go and what choices I can make. JCQ tell us what you can do and you can't do. And so we have a list of key people who can draw exams, who can put exams together, all of that good stuff.
And they'll be doing different roles within the prison?
Yes.
And do you have a network of support as well, Geraldine, with people who do similar roles to you in different prisons? Do you have contact with people?
I certainly know who some of them are, but generally we work in our own sphere and keep to ourselves. So at the moment, I just tend to keep to do my own thing. It sounds like you've got a lot of support within the prison staff as well. I think it's one of those systems that because they know how stressful it is, it's a very good network of staff that I work with. And we've always got each other's back, if you like. You're always looking out to check how is my colleague doing? Are they looking like they're having a difficult time? Do they need a conversation or a hug or a cup of tea or a biscuit? What do they need? What can I give them? So I think you build that after time from being in somewhere that is quite stressful. And I guess we’ve learnt to function pretty well, so that we do a bit more than just survive.
It really, really sounds like you do and it is a lot more than an administrative exams role from what you're describing and how much you support everyone. It obviously must be stressful at times. Could you tell us a little bit more about that, about what you really enjoy, but what's also challenging to you?
It's lovely for me to be able to be there for the guys and help them do their exams. I really like being part of that process, because you never know who's going to come into your classroom and who actually is going to want to put their hand up and say I'd like to learn something and I'd like to do this course. So that's a great feeling when you get to the end of someone's learning and you can be in front of them with the exam. Many of them haven't had the experience of being quiet, they're used to being noisy and loud. And so to actually have a nice, quiet room and give them all the instructions - now guys, this is what to expect, this is what I'm going to ask of you, this is how you have to behave within the next hour, hour and a half. They need some introduction to that, if you like, in the classroom, so that when they actually come to the exam, they know what to expect and they're not going to get any surprises.
I just like having the opportunity to give someone another chance to get a qualification. And very occasionally, when I'm going out of the prison, or I see someone who's being released, that's a huge occasion. Very occasionally someone will turn around and say, “Thanks, miss, thanks for giving me a chance to do that.” Norwich is a small city, and I may see someone out and about, and they'll put their hand up and say hi, and thank you. And it's a small thing, but it makes a difference.
It's made me really emotional. If you've ever taught, you can get that experience of someone you maybe didn't think would have gained qualifications in school. Then you see them later and they did, and they're thriving in their lives. But this is on the next level, when someone's been in prison and then you see them go on to have a really good life afterwards and know that you've been a really important part of that.
In the main, of course, you never really know how someone's going to be when they're outside and released. But just to get the opportunity to hear that from someone, it just lifts you and you think, well, do you know, today was a tough day, but it was worth it.
We know, Geraldine, that alongside your work in prison, you've got some other interest around exam stress. Can you tell us a bit about the work that you've done within that as well?
I put together a way of helping students to change how they think about themselves and who they are and how they can do their exams. And this is something that I brought out a couple of months ago to help teachers and schools to shift how they think about how they do, how they prepare for exams, how they can handle their fears and how they can manage those last minute panics. Because I think we know that if anxiety isn't resolved, it can lead to some poor behaviour. I think the reason most students are challenged by school discipline, is because they don't think very well of themselves. So, changing how they think can really shift things for them. And this Exam Reaction Plan is just one way for schools and teachers to show students how they could do that. And it's good for those who are going to do tests. They may be very, very bright students, but they don't do well under pressure and when they're up against it. I love going in and talking to schools and giving them talks and I love putting all these things together for people to help their students.
You're obviously running the exams in a higher pressure environment, so the skills that you'll have learned and the knowledge you've gained through that is so applicable to somewhere which is less pressurised. It's a great idea. If people want to find out more about the work that you've done on this, is there somewhere that they can go to find out?
There's a couple of ways they can find me. I've got a website, geraldinejosefiak.com, or they can drop me an email at hello@geraldinejosefiak.com or they'll find me on the socials as well. Hopefully, next year, I'm going to have some things on Etsy as well for schools, and school stress.
Geraldine, thank you so much. That has been absolutely fascinating, and a completely different insight into this world. First time I've got emotional in a podcast here as well. I've never been inside a prison, but John has. He hasn't been in prison!
You visited?
One of my first jobs that I did after I graduated, was working for the prison service for a couple of years. I worked for the property services group, which did a lot of the building maintenance and I visited prisons, looking at solar power installations and things like that. I went to Cardiff, Wormwood Scrubs, Blakenhurst up near Birmingham. So I've been into a few prisons and I have to say they're quite intimidating places to go into if you've never been in one before. So I have a lot of respect for people who have, like yourself, been able to work there on a long-term basis.
Well, I'd love to say, please come and visit, but I can't just put the invitation out there!
It's been amazing to hear about something most people don't get the opportunity to understand and experience. Thank you. Well, thank you. It's been lovely to talk to you.
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