Come One, Come All

[00:00:02] I was 6'4 at the start of this exam series, I think I'm about 5'10 now You just warmed your legs out You can see me do this in this car, I had a full head of hair when we did Cax

[00:00:41] What are you now, Simon, about a half head? A half head, yeah, that's generous John, that's generous Hello and welcome to The Exam Man podcast, I'm your host John Gaston and I am here with my co-host Sophie Gaston Hi John, how are you doing?

[00:01:17] Yeah, I'm good, not too bad, I've finished exams and I've been swapping exams to stress the England football team this week So that's a welcome change Nice of them to put the Euros on for you

[00:01:31] Yeah, yeah, I did ask for it, so yeah, I was very lucky in that respect So speaking of football, I know it's been a while since I did a football analogy but I've got a kind of timely one I think

[00:01:47] So from next week I will be going into my year 10 exams So having just finished the big summer GCSE and A-level exams, I'm going to be heading straight into the year 10 exams Is that common? Yeah, it happens every year

[00:02:05] You always say to me, I don't remember you doing this last year but I can guarantee you that every single year I do do this Because you've sort of reached the end of your tether with me by this stage, haven't you?

[00:02:17] Tired and grouchy about exams and then I have to tell you that I've got another two weeks to go Is it easy though? Easy ride? Well, so this is when my football analogy comes in because I think the year 10 exams, they're like a banana skin football game

[00:02:33] So like during the GCSEs and the A-levels It's like you're playing a big match, like you're playing Germany or France or something like that And so you're like fully concentrated

[00:02:43] Everyone's on point. Everyone's motivated. And then when you go into the year 10s, I don't know. It's like you're playing I don't know like Scotland or something like that and Yeah, it's easy to take your eye off the ball

[00:02:56] I think but it's it's kind of important that you don't because they're actually a really important set of exams So Usually for when you're putting year 10 through it's the first time that they'll have sort of done exams Properly. Yeah. Yeah. So under the full exam conditions

[00:03:15] And you're starting to kind of acclimatize them to what they're going to have to deal with in year 11 And are they taking it seriously enough? Well, I mean it's the end of the year And it's hot It's sunny outside It is a it's a really tricky one

[00:03:29] I think it does have the potential for things to go wrong And so even though you're knackered you've got to sort of try and refocus and refocus your invigilators and things like that On getting the job done. We had a few year 10s do GCSE exams

[00:03:45] Particularly in our home languages this year and you do notice a real difference So when they come into the exam room versus the year 11th And it might not even be that they're the sort of students who are sort of prone to misbehaving or anything like that

[00:03:57] But they just really don't understand The rules and what they need what's required of them in the same way Even though they've sort of been told they haven't experienced it They've practiced it To actually realizing that kind of this is it and you know just see it

[00:04:12] Yeah, there's not the same kind of jeopardy But there's just not the same focus So what we're trying to do with the year 10 exams is get them into that mindset

[00:04:20] So we actually go quite hard on them in the year 10 exams particularly around kind of process and procedure things around like Mobile phones and making sure that they come into the exam room in the right way Because what you're trying to do is trying to set the tone

[00:04:33] Then for when they come into year 11, they do their mocks and as you move towards the Summer exams they get better and better and better at doing it. That's the theory anyway

[00:04:43] Sometimes I think with the year 10 exams like you say a time of year is it can be can be a bit of a struggle But um, we'll have our game faces on again from next week and giving it our best shot

[00:05:01] So this week we are really pleased to be speaking to simon cheriman who's a director at tutors and exams Yeah, so tutors and exams are a company that facilitate private candidates With opportunities to sit exams What's the definition of a private candidate?

[00:05:20] So a private candidate would typically be somebody who is not a student at a school basically So it'd be someone who is not a kind of registered pupil at a school exam center So someone who's outside of the education system

[00:05:34] But is looking for an opportunity to sit and exam to gain a qualification. Yeah, um, so This might be you know because they are older So, you know people who have left school but who want to come back and gain qualifications

[00:05:49] That's quite common. I think particularly in things like gcse english and maths where they're required for employment When you do it sit the exam you fail never think never have to think about it and then you get a job

[00:06:00] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So at our school often I'll have members of staff approach me and ask if they can do qualifications Because they they want them to help them to do certain things Then um, you'd also have obviously students who are home educated. They don't have necessary local

[00:06:19] School that they might be able to sit it in So they might use a private exam centre like tutors and exams Excluded students as well excluded students. Yeah, and and anyone who's just sort of outside of the the system So it's a really important function

[00:06:35] Any exam centre can accept private candidates. So obviously schools can accept private candidates as well We do sometimes yeah But it is really useful to have these sorts of facilities available as well because often schools can't accommodate

[00:06:50] Large numbers of private candidates and often a school is not necessarily an appropriate environment for Someone yeah for someone who's outside the system to to to take their exams at and so

[00:07:01] It's a it's a kind of valuable part of the entire exam ecosystem. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So we had a fantastic chat with Simon. I think he enjoyed it as much as we did Yeah, he was very pro at podcast and

[00:07:17] Very it felt like he'd done it before. Yeah, he said he said he hadn't but I think yeah, yeah, I think he must have been very impressive Yep. Anyway, enjoy. I like your snazzy snazzy headphones as well. They're very cool

[00:07:37] So to let you into a new laptop for work and my old headphones Didn't work. So until I get my new headphones I've speak to my oldest daughter who's back from um having done her masters and she's going well dad try these

[00:07:49] So I'm gonna say they're very trendy. Yeah far too trendy for me They are not dad headphones. That's all I can say Okay, although we're podcasting if you could see me now But john firstly many congratulations on your jcq inspection. Oh

[00:08:09] Yeah, well, I was listening to the last podcast I bet you are We got through it. Have you have all your sensors? Yeah, we've had inspectors We can sometimes get more than one because our exam season starts April and our last exam day is the 24th of june

[00:08:25] So I don't know whether you're finished yet, but we still got another What five to eight days yet. So no, I I'm going until the 21st So we have a small sick form which means we have some A level exams and things next week. So um

[00:08:39] Yeah, it's all going but uh, but day off today Good man, excellent And the other thing that made me smile was you talked about your 20 000 steps Oh, yeah, yeah, so we all go to so each run some alternate sites

[00:08:52] I have to go and and run one of those and um, yeah I was six for four at the start of this exam series. I think I'm about five foot ten now You just just just just worn my legs out

[00:09:05] Thank you so much for joining us because I know it's still a very busy time, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, we get towards the end of it now. We've we had the last big day on Monday with maths GCSEs

[00:09:18] So um, it's kind of just starting to taper down now. So that's quite nice Yeah, yeah, could you could you start by telling us a little bit more about um, tutors and exams? And kind of like what would be really interesting is how it started

[00:09:33] Yeah, what was the need and where you are because I know you're in multiple locations. So that'll be really interested Okay, so it started 10 years ago. So it's our 10th anniversary this year 23rd of august. We are 10 years old

[00:09:45] Yeah, so it started to the companies run by a couple of People Jen and Chris who have a lot of experience as an examinational officer and awarding organization manager And sort of 10 11 years ago. They started to think private candidates

[00:10:02] Need to place to to have their assessments done. So they decided to um Set up a centre in Coventry at that time the first year they ran there were 35 candidates And that was deemed to be a success

[00:10:16] Yeah, and uh from there we then went from Coventry to Bolton open the centre there Open the centre in Wimbledon Then cags came along followed by tags and no doubt we'll touch on that a bit later Um, don't start getting that cold sweat from the uh

[00:10:33] And then we've subsequently opened centres in St Nitz Belfast Don Caster High Wickham Taunton Romford and late last year. We opened our 10th centre in Birmingham. So uh, yeah a decent geographical spread Um, can I ask Simon what was the strategy around around where you went?

[00:10:57] You know the Bolton second and then down to Wimbledon. What's what's the sort of overall strategy? It's so I so I arrived after Wimbledon had been open. So um, but but effectively It was it was around

[00:11:11] Sort of trying to get a geographical spread. So when you look at a map of England, you know, we can't be everywhere for everybody Yeah, clearly large conurbations. So Wimbledon and Romford in London Yeah, they're they're big

[00:11:24] You know it's capital city and then Birmingham and Coventry they started Coventry because that's where that's where they live So Coventry was the the obvious first place, but in opening in Birmingham second city so again a big big big population there

[00:11:40] Bolton and Don Caster. So you kind of go left and right at the Pennines Taunton in the southwest. I mean, you know, it's you can't be everywhere But yeah, and then High Wickham St. Nitz sitting above London And out towards sort of the the Fens

[00:11:56] And technically towards East Anglia. It's it's just trying to get that geographical spread But acknowledging that you can't be Everywhere for everybody. I remember we opened Don Caster centre I had an email from a lady saying when you coming to the north and I said, well Don Caster

[00:12:16] We are in we're in the north. I mean, I live in West Sussex. So once you get past Watford You know, we are heading north anyway, and I said, well Don Caster isn't that the north? She said no Simon

[00:12:29] I spoke to a face showing no Simon. Um, I'm in Newcastle Fast forward a couple of years my youngest daughter went to Newcastle University And as we drove past Don Caster and still two hours to go

[00:12:40] I got I understood where she was coming from. I got it. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah Yeah, so I mean strategy also we look around, you know, where the application where the applicants are coming from Yeah, you know, we we can't be in Sunives in Cornwall

[00:12:53] But Thornton sort of starts to cover off a lot of the southwest Ronford starts to pick up a bit of, you know, Ken East Sussex along with Wimbledon picking up So sorry West Sussex and in it's it's just trying to

[00:13:07] Get a spread that means that there is a private assessment centre Um, I wouldn't say necessarily with an easy reach but within reach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

[00:13:18] So do you have do you have plans to do you feel like you've got the geography covered now or are there plans to open More centres or is it just dependent on how things go and that sort of thing? That's always a million dollar question

[00:13:31] Um, I think to be fair, uh, we only just opened Birmingham late last year We'll take a look at how everything's panning out, but we never say never Yeah, but we're just sort of got 10 centres now across the UK

[00:13:46] It does take quite a lot of coordination, especially when it comes to summer exams Um, so we'll sort of take a step back at the end of the summer See how it all went. I was going to say logistically how do you work across those locations?

[00:13:56] So have you got staff based near them or do you all You know, you're very present during the exam period So we we we we resource each centre with a centre manager and exam manager In some centres and an exams assistant as well

[00:14:11] So every centre has their own staff and then as I'm sure you find joining in in your school An army of invigilators. Yeah, literally an army of invigilators to support, you know every centre and they do an amazing job

[00:14:26] So if there's any of our invigilators out there listening, thank you You know, you've done an amazing job this summer without the invigilators We would really be you know, it would be a challenge to get to get if you know

[00:14:38] And you need a good spread because the exam season goes for such a long time now. Yeah I'll ask you something on that Simon. So obviously when I recruit invigilators, I'm saying to them I obviously I can give you work during the summer exams

[00:14:51] But I can also give you work when we run mocks in December and I can also give you work when we run mocks in March Are you able to offer more than just the summer exams to people the people you're recruiting or is it

[00:15:05] Is it just focused around that? No, so we obviously have the autumn series, which is a bit more condensed now that Pearson IGCSEs have come into the autumn series We also have the resets. So that's very much part and parcel

[00:15:18] We also have our mocks as well in September and March We also have international A levels in January And Over and above that we run functional skills and AAT And we're looking to to run some other alternative exam offerings in due course. So there's there's a steady

[00:15:36] There's a steady stream there so, yeah, there's there's plenty of opportunity and It's part-time work but they are a great asset to the organization without doubt Yeah, and so just can you just tell us about your mocks for a second there?

[00:15:50] So when a candidate signs up to do exams with you, you'll offer them the opportunity to do mock exams as well. Is that right? Yeah, absolutely. So We run obviously mocks in September for the autumn series and in in March for the summer series

[00:16:04] We run two types of mocks Unmarked mock So that's really designed for a candidate who has maybe never sat an exam So when you're sitting in mainstream education and if you've been through mainstream education

[00:16:17] You will just everything is kind of laid out for you as you progress through the two years to gcse's and then the two years to a Levels, you'll sit your mocks, etc. You'll get the exam experience and something that we're very passionate about is that candidates

[00:16:34] Home educated candidates sometimes when it comes to their first exam they sit That's actually the first time they've sat any exam and it might even be the first time they've been to the center So there's two types of mocks. There's an unmarked mock

[00:16:48] That gets you the experience of sitting in an exam in the exam environment And then there's the mark mark for those who want to know How they're doing and where they sit with regards to what further studies they need to do

[00:17:00] Just going on from that as well, John and Sophie. We also do center visits So again, you're going to school day in day out You know, you know what your exam is going to be

[00:17:09] For when I was at school when I sat my o-levels and that will carbon date me And that you go to that big school hall you get marched in, you know where you're going

[00:17:20] I mean, it's a huge place. You can just about see the board at the end of the room And you sit your exam, you know what you're gonna do. You know where you're gonna go

[00:17:27] For a number of our candidates they don't so we offer center visits and they can become familiar with the Environment but also with the staff So that they can meet them as well. So on that first day It's not everything's not a new experience

[00:17:43] There's a little bit that they can associate to And you mentioned there Simon, obviously some of the students you have coming into the center are home educated students What can you tell us more about the candidates? Yeah

[00:17:58] Services kind of, you know what their backgrounds are why why they are coming to the centers. Yeah, people are interesting So basically we cater for all of those outside of mainstream education In essence, so if you're home educated, you're a private candidate

[00:18:12] You might be a reset. You might actually want to do a career change And therefore you might need that higher grade in maths or English So you need to come and sit that It's it's a broad church Sophie

[00:18:24] You know we have last year we had our youngest candidate was 10 Our eldest candidate was 74 And he was a retired teacher used to do teach a level latin and he just wanted to see a level latin To see whether he could remember it. So

[00:18:41] Yeah, it is a very broad church. Do you know how he did? Yeah, no, but i'm gonna take a guess I suspected very well Yeah, I I suspect so but you know, it's it's it's that It it's it's and that that's the thing that then

[00:18:58] Provides the sort of so if you're a private candidate and you go and you're and you're able to be sat in a school You take the private candidate and there's all these kids in the school uniform

[00:19:08] And then you're the one that's not you kind of stick out a little bit. Yeah You don't when you come to sit at a private exam center, everybody is different Everybody's got a journey actually as well. You know, there's You know, everyone's got a different different story

[00:19:24] Not not that we know every one of them, but for some they're looking for that nine that a star That you know, they want to go to college or go on to university And for some maybe the achievement is Actually sitting the exam

[00:19:39] That might be that might be the achievement. Um, so yeah, we cater for a a wide range of candidates and They're they're academic or they're exam sitting requirements through our a 18 can ask you a question. So do you encourage so where your

[00:19:57] Centres are the schools that exist in the in the local area around those centres Do you encourage those schools to send private candidates to you? Do you speak to them at all about that? We write offering our services and so there are

[00:20:15] And john you'll probably be able to to to to emphasize this more than than myself There are schools that take private candidates and there are schools that don't You're asked all the time aren't you john? Yeah, I mean we're one that we're one that does

[00:20:29] But but the reason I ask the question simon is actually because um, you know in certain circumstances is so no-brainer for us to take a private candidate You know if they're a recently left ex student

[00:20:40] They want to do a course then maybe their college isn't letting them do it That sort of thing, you know they want to do the exams. That's fine But we do get a lot of you know kind of just general inquiries

[00:20:51] And I do often feel it would be nice if we had a centre like yours locally where I could You know I can refer them To to that because obviously from a school's point of view

[00:21:02] We have a lot of students that we're dealing with and so private candidates become a big piece of extra work Sometimes which uh, which isn't always that welcome There are many schools that come back to us when we contact them to say they're very grateful because

[00:21:30] There's one thing to say that you don't sit private candidates and then you're just saying no Effective computer says no You're saying no it's nice to be able to signpost them so we don't but if you go to tutor exams

[00:21:43] They've got centres across the uk they sit private candidates That's a nice way for you to feel like you're at least signposting them somewhere else And we do get a lot. We also get schools that use us where they've got they've got students who want to sit

[00:21:58] An exam that you just don't offer but we do So, you know they come and sit that one There's a timetable class that comes with that Yeah joy But yes, absolutely. But yeah, it's it's a very very wide-ranging

[00:22:14] Set of candidates that we have and that's that's the joy. It's delight Yeah, that's that's really good point actually because I think if you're a school that says no We don't accept private candidates and you don't have a centre a private exam centre near you

[00:22:26] Then by definition what you're doing is you're shunting them on to another school So you're essentially saying we're not willing to take that burden But another school will have to

[00:22:36] So I think the idea that there are these centres that take on private candidates is so good because it means then That schools have a have that option where they don't You know, they can lighten their own burden a little bit

[00:22:50] But they don't have to feel like they're then pushing that on to another school. Do you see what I mean? Absolutely, John and also don't forget the burden for the parent of the candidate or the candidate themselves when they're trying to find somewhere

[00:23:02] To see it. Yeah, so stressful. Yeah, Sophie at bingo. Yeah, absolutely It just it it's time. So I can actually relate to that a couple of years ago. We um I had to try and see a candidate

[00:23:16] There was a very specific reason for it and I phoned 20. I still remember it to this day I had to perform 28 schools to try and see this candidate I'm still waiting for some of them to phone me back

[00:23:28] Yeah, yeah, I mean I I do think I do there have been times where we've said no to somebody and um And I felt terrible afterwards to be honest because I've sort of known that they're now going to try and get on the phone

[00:23:42] To another school here and another school there and they're probably going to say the same thing And they're going to go around the houses Um Because schools want to help don't you want to help? It's just sometimes it's just not feasible. So

[00:23:54] Sometimes as well schools will say I think sometimes schools have concerns They'll say that they have concerns around safeguarding and things like that particularly if it's adults coming in To the school and they've never met them before because obviously you do a lot of preparatory work

[00:24:08] Don't you as well? Like you meet the candidates beforehand. They come and visit the center and things like that So you can put in all that work in advance To to ensure that all those things are sort of and they have the experience you want them to have

[00:24:23] Sitting there exams don't you where schools might not be able to to do what they would ideally like to do? Um, you do have that kind of space and setup to be able to to give them that proper experience that they they deserve

[00:24:35] Don't they absolutely Sophie. Yeah, definitely I've got a question going slightly off the work Of tutor exams. I'd just like to know a little bit more about you Simon and your background As you joined um when they took on Wimbledon. Is that right?

[00:24:52] No, I joined just after Wimbledon. So okay, so what were you doing before and what and what brings you to exams? I'm fascinated by people who are as interested in exams as we are That's a really good question. So basically I joined a large high street retail bank

[00:25:06] The one with the black horse listeners there are other high street retail banks out there Um, probably not in as many high streets as they once were but they asked it out there Um, and I spent 30 years man and boy

[00:25:17] In in the bank and then I got towards 50 and thought do you know what? I want to do something totally different And um, I had to be looking on indeed and there was a job advert for an exams officer with tutors and exams and I thought

[00:25:31] Do you know and I read the spec and I thought yeah, okay. I get that you know methodical Yeah, john, you know, you have a thoughtical organized all those things. I thought yeah

[00:25:38] Yeah, yeah, I'm that I'm that so I applied and and they gave me the job and um and I joined in in november 2019 Which will mean absolutely nothing to anybody except if I tell you that after four months in march 2020

[00:25:53] Gavin williamson made that announcement to say there would be no exams And there I was for four months into my job and I got a text from a former colleague and he said I thought you're gonna say that you got a text from gavin williamson

[00:26:08] If I had his number I'm very sorry, Simon And um, and I got a text from a former colleague saying out say Simon you're an exams officer without exams. How's it going? And um, john, you were in the role at that time weren't you so you would have

[00:26:25] You would have but you were from a an environment where there was a process that was in place Because those candidates have been taught by your teachers for two years leading in

[00:26:36] We had private candidates who might have been taught by a distance learning provider and I scored a tutor There was no process But but what was really interesting was so four months in you start to recognize the metal

[00:26:49] Of the owners of the company and and the management team at choosers and exams because there was no process for private candidates And they got onto the department for education. They got onto off coal the jcq and all the awarding organizations went guys

[00:27:03] Private candidates what's going on? We were able to agree a uh a process With them to get private candidates a gag Um, and I have to say I have never worked if I thought I was moving into a new role where maybe after 30 years in in banking

[00:27:21] It was going to be a little bit quieter. I have to say that summer. I have never worked so hard I I remember on one particular day so I was working out of of Wimbledon

[00:27:31] Well, we were working from home by then and I phoned one of the owners christ. I went. I think we have a problem And he went what do you mean? I went look at the Wimbledon emails and he went what do you mean?

[00:27:41] I said just look I said we were applied to one to pop up. It's like fantasia. It's like the buckets in fanfare fantasia We we in the end could of course schools then Did displace private candidates? You've got a collegiate where you've taught for two years

[00:27:56] And you've got to grade based on the experiences of the two years of teaching And then you've got a private candidate who you've never met. Yeah, they didn't want to do that So these candidates got displaced and work got out that we had a process

[00:28:09] Um, we were able to grade thousands of candidates that that summer it was It was incredible and What makes it rewarding is that there was the possibility there without The involvement of the senior management in in choosing exams that perhaps private candidates might not have got graded

[00:28:27] But they did they were able to continue their academic journey whether it was from To do a levels at a college whether it was to go on to university Or whether it was for a career change or whatever We were able to support those candidates

[00:28:41] But but it's still there's still an email that I got Way after all the process had finished and everything was done and that's different my father saying I've only just heard about you my daughter needs her a level grades to go to university

[00:28:54] And and there was nothing we could do although we'd helped help thousands. It was that one that still resonates But that that's pretty much and then of course, uh, so I was then two years in to choosing exams

[00:29:06] And we had the year of the cat at the tag. Yeah, I'm hosting the exam I've seen the year of the tag then of course which obviously Boris was kind enough to announce in early January that we wouldn't do exams at you

[00:29:21] So there was a bit more notice, but it was still incredibly busy And then of course from 22 onwards But by then I was I was the business development manager and then become the sales and marketing director say I've actually run fairly

[00:29:35] Say you joined as exams officer. You didn't really get the chance to run I've really run an exam actually when you look back at it

[00:29:44] But as if I'm right in understanding this, I mean you are all quite hands-on deck as well, aren't you like when it when it gets to the

[00:29:51] Oh, yeah, the pitch pinch points in exam season. So so you will be getting your hands dirty with exams. Am I right about that? I've got my hands dirty. We have the big days, of course. Don't we we have um

[00:30:03] There's five big days with the GCSE maths and English and of course we run alternate sites So, um, yeah, they they do ask me to go and run one of your alternate sites, which we just

[00:30:12] Yeah, I love it and it's great. And yeah, so when you're talking about 20 000 steps I think yeah, I get that because of course where we run the alternate sites John and say if we we have quite often we have to put the desk up the night before

[00:30:24] Then we run it and then because it's not our premises. We're hosting the exam there We'd have to drop all the desks and there's something quite There's something quite wrong about setting the desk up at eight o'clock in the evening and then dropping them at midday

[00:30:35] The next day it's like oh my gosh. So we do that but hey, that's what it is about The whole tutors and exams team from the owners of the company all the way through the team That's what we do to make sure that we can host

[00:30:49] Candidates to sit their exams and that's the support. I just at this stage I just wanted to do as well you reminding me of that I just wanted to do a quick shout out to all the

[00:31:00] Site teams at schools as well who set up all the desks and take them down again And if other schools are similar to ours, they're doing it so many times through the exam season because obviously The school halls get used for other things. They get used at weekends

[00:31:15] You know after school clubs and things like that. So they're constantly Better putting up desks and taking them down again. And I don't you know, I don't have to do that So I'm very fortunate, but it sounds like tutors and exams

[00:31:28] Chips and eggs are all doing their steps. They're doing it. We all do it absolutely There's a certain clatter of when you're putting a desk down and someone drops one and it is Floor and it makes that sound across the whole of that hall

[00:31:42] It's hard to it's hard to sort of dismiss from your minds takes a couple of weeks I think hosting exams in many ways is that the best bit is actually the exam days

[00:31:53] I think it's great. You see the candidates and if you do the same site and you do it a few times You get the same people come back you you get to

[00:32:01] Yeah, and the parents or or whoever you get to build a bit of rapport and it's lovely It's it is definitely the best part. I'm sure they really appreciate you what you've done as well Definitely, I mean I've said this a couple of times before in the podcast

[00:32:14] But I think people would be surprised at how positive an experience Doing exams can be so from the from our point of view and also seeing the students as well Like it's not it's you know, obviously some time to time students get distressed upset very stressed out

[00:32:31] But I wouldn't say that that's actually the norm. The norm is actually a much more positive Kind of atmosphere around exams. Is that your experience? I I think it's a it's a 50 50

[00:32:45] I think there's people obviously you know going back to what we were talking about earlier. They're there they want to get the grade They need to progress. They want to go to university. They want that career change

[00:32:57] What's always interesting is to watch and you see those I hear centre managers and exams managers talk about it And you'll see in school as well on that first exam. They are so very nervous

[00:33:08] They they you know, they don't quite know what to expect. But by the end of the summer It's as if you see them grow as individuals

[00:33:18] And the way they then deal with it is it is admirable. Yeah, I think that's very rewarding. Definitely great with that. Yeah. Yeah Okay, um about the future. Oh, yes, so

[00:33:32] So so yeah, I guess our last question to you Simon would be about how you see the future for Private exam centres whether you think it's an area that we're likely to see growth in in the coming years

[00:33:46] And and what how you view as well the future for for tutors and exams as a as an organization It's crystal ball time, isn't it? Yeah

[00:33:56] You've got to make some predictions now, which uh, which we'll come back to in two years time and see whether you were right Okay, so I think one of the things that I

[00:34:04] I genuinely think there'll always be a place for a private exam centre because there are those that sit outside of mainstream education Um, and as long as they exist private exam centres will exist and I read an article in the BBC news a couple weeks ago

[00:34:18] That said that the numbers of that have left mainstream education to be home educated It's it's still growing. So I guess by definition the private exam centre will still exist I think one of the challenges that will start to present itself over the coming years

[00:34:34] Is online exams that that's that's kind of starting to get a little bit of momentum. Um, It's it's not you know, it hasn't arrived there in any great shape or form yet

[00:34:45] But I think you know you you have to take a step back and think that technology is uh, it is it's overtaking everything so Online exams, but then how many kids use laptops day to day and how many actually do still write and

[00:35:02] Again, so there's a balance to be found there, but we will prepare ourselves Should there be this requirement moving forward? I'm obviously with access arrangements. You have candidates that that need laptops and we're able to provide those

[00:35:14] Yeah, but within some of the other offerings that we do so we do c packs for a level So we hire schools. We work with five schools across the country. So there's bold school in bolden

[00:35:25] King's College Taunton Harrow School South Bank and King Henry VIII Coventry where we host c packs in the February half term and in the east holidays And can you just explain Simon what a c pack is so it's it's basically it's it's the

[00:35:41] requirement to sit the practical element of a level biology chemistry or physics And and if again, if you're outside of mainstream education finding somewhere to sit That that that practical assessment Can be challenging. Um, so that's something that we offer and as long as that stays as well

[00:35:58] Then we will continue to offer c packs. We also still we still offer field trips for a level geography and environmental studies in Lincolnshire and again as long as all these elements are still out there

[00:36:12] And people can't access it through mainstream education the requirement for a private exam center still very much Will exist is as exams evolve and that'll be down to the awarding organizations how they dictate that We we will evolve with it as as no doubt schools will as well

[00:36:31] So I certainly see there's very much a place for the private exam center moving forward. Um, it's how that looks To five ten years from now that'll be the interesting thing

[00:36:42] But again as long as there's still a large number of people who sit outside of mainstream education and and need To sit their exams in a safe environment which we offer then there will always be a private exam center

[00:36:56] Yeah, fascinating. It's an interesting time, isn't it? It is working within exams. Yeah, very thank you so much Simon That was absolutely fascinating Do you know what really stood out for me as well was when you were talking about the stuff around?

[00:37:09] The the cags in that first year because that I think that's probably something that most people won't know about um What went into that so um, yeah, congratulations on that. I think that's Yeah

[00:37:22] You can see me do this in this car. I had a full head of hair when we did What are you now Simon about a half head? Half head. Yeah, that's that's generous Fabulous lovely talk to you Simon

[00:37:39] Is there anything else you want to add because we can add couldn't we if there's anything else All I'll say is if you want to come and see one of our centers

[00:37:46] If you happen to be around or want to let me know I'll happily meet you show you around and you can come and see What a private exam center looks like right? We need to do that. We're getting invites galore at the moment

[00:37:58] You know where your summer's gonna be milking then Coventry Or you go Wimbledon wrong foot, you know Take a pic. No, we will definitely do that. We've done it too. It'd be nice to a nice sweet person

[00:38:12] Thank you so much. I hope you enjoyed it. It's really I have thoroughly enjoyed it It's been lovely to talk to you both and look forward to catching up with you at some stage Ah, it was so much fun. Wasn't it? Yeah, it was. Yeah, really good.

[00:38:30] I just love that it's just yet another person that we've spoken to who absolutely did not intend to work in the exam So then as ended up in it. Yeah, such a such a common story, isn't it? But actually I have to correct you there because

[00:38:44] Simon actually didn't end up being in the exam So having gone into the job expecting to do that The world had other plans or it's managed to avoid it

[00:38:53] It does sound like now he is you know the way that the tutors and exams work that they all do actually Yeah, really really lucky with the with the um, I'm really enjoying it as well. I mean, yeah

[00:39:05] You can really tell that um, it's it's actually being with the candidates that that they really love Thank you so much for listening to the exam and podcast. We really really appreciate your support Remember that you can access it on all the major podcast platforms

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