Escape to the country- spotlight on Simon

[00:00:04] Music

[00:00:25] I mean my line manager, this is going to sound quite bizarre, lives at the end of my garden.

[00:00:29] Love that!

[00:00:32] I mean actually just over my garden wall.

[00:00:35] Music

[00:00:40] I mean it's like the head of centre is like a symbolic role, isn't it?

[00:00:43] It's like ceremonial.

[00:00:45] Like the king or something, he doesn't have any actual influence on the process.

[00:00:54] We might be out of key that.

[00:00:56] Music

[00:01:09] Hello and welcome to The Exam Man podcast.

[00:01:11] I'm your host John Gaston and I am here with my lovely co-host Sophie Gaston.

[00:01:16] Thanks.

[00:01:17] It's nice, isn't it?

[00:01:18] Yeah, yeah, well, I wasn't expecting that.

[00:01:20] I can't quite believe we're doing this really, to be honest.

[00:01:23] It is today the 9th of May and I have just completed my first day of the summer exam season.

[00:01:32] I keep calling them the big exams, the main exams.

[00:01:35] But obviously lots of schools have been having exams leading up to this.

[00:01:39] International schools about three, four weeks in, aren't they?

[00:01:42] Yeah, they could have ended it for ages.

[00:01:43] But in the UK is a pretty significant day, isn't it?

[00:01:46] So you've literally just got home, you've took your lanyard off

[00:01:50] and you've just inhaled some food.

[00:01:52] But other than that, you're just very much in exams mode.

[00:01:56] Yeah.

[00:01:57] How's it been?

[00:01:59] Well, do you know what I had high hopes for today?

[00:02:03] Because it's the smaller exams, don't they?

[00:02:05] So that is one quite nice thing about today was that it was religious studies in the morning GCSE

[00:02:12] and GCSE drama in the afternoon.

[00:02:15] And I also had one student doing GCSE Urdu this afternoon as well.

[00:02:20] But in total, across the whole of today, I only had 23 students sitting exams.

[00:02:27] Six doing religious studies in the morning.

[00:02:29] You're complacent about that, John.

[00:02:31] Wasn't that easy?

[00:02:32] Well, I thought, yeah, okay, this is going to be good.

[00:02:34] We can get everything set up.

[00:02:35] We can kind of ease into everything.

[00:02:38] Did you have new invigilators today as well?

[00:02:40] People have not done it before.

[00:02:41] No, I had a very experienced team in today.

[00:02:46] So yeah, it should have been completely straight forward.

[00:02:48] I'm going to say you even seemed a little excited this morning.

[00:02:51] I mean, you wouldn't have said that.

[00:02:52] I was awake at about five o'clock.

[00:02:55] I woke up at quarter five worried about all the exams officers across the country.

[00:03:00] I did have an exams dream last night as well.

[00:03:02] Yeah.

[00:03:03] What's it in them?

[00:03:04] Well, it was a really weird dream.

[00:03:06] It's that we had speaking exams for maths, which was odd.

[00:03:11] I hadn't recorded all the results on the portal.

[00:03:16] Yeah.

[00:03:17] It's very, very specific.

[00:03:19] Very specific trajectory.

[00:03:21] Yeah.

[00:03:22] So anyway, my day.

[00:03:24] So a few things went wrong today.

[00:03:28] There were a few things that went wrong on a kind of national scale as well,

[00:03:31] which I think people, a lot of people will have been affected by.

[00:03:36] It didn't actually affect me that much, that stuff,

[00:03:40] because I only had small exams, small numbers of students today.

[00:03:46] But I did still have some things go wrong.

[00:03:49] Did you have broken arms?

[00:03:51] No broken arms.

[00:03:52] No broken arms.

[00:03:53] So that's still to come, presumably.

[00:03:55] What was rather amusing was after I fan up last week, wasn't it,

[00:04:01] about the fact that there's always a child that breaks their arm before exams,

[00:04:07] which was something that I hadn't really ever thought about.

[00:04:11] And then we were in the car, was that a few days after that,

[00:04:15] after we were talking about that,

[00:04:17] and you literally got a call to say that a child had sprained their wrist, wasn't it?

[00:04:21] Yeah.

[00:04:22] And then scrambling around to find it.

[00:04:24] Yeah, we had to use, for one of the students with their speaking exams,

[00:04:27] their preparation time, they had to end up having to use a laptop

[00:04:31] because they couldn't write.

[00:04:32] But as far as I know that, students okay now.

[00:04:34] So we won't have to be fine as well.

[00:04:36] Good, good, good.

[00:04:37] So that was alright today.

[00:04:38] No medical dramas.

[00:04:39] No medical dramas today.

[00:04:40] What was the drama then?

[00:04:41] No, so yeah, a couple of things.

[00:04:45] One of these is quite funny actually.

[00:04:47] So I have been fighting for some time to get a phone,

[00:04:52] just a bog standard basic phone that our invigilation team can use.

[00:04:58] Why?

[00:04:59] So what we have for every exam, hopefully if I have enough people

[00:05:03] is a roving invigilator that is someone who just goes around all the rooms.

[00:05:06] So the car.

[00:05:07] And yeah, the rover.

[00:05:09] It goes around all the rooms and checks everyone's okay.

[00:05:13] Who?

[00:05:14] The invigilators.

[00:05:16] Yeah, checks all the invigilators, checks all the rooms.

[00:05:18] Check everyone's set everything up properly.

[00:05:20] You know, like just it's a great thing to have someone going around.

[00:05:24] But you need, people need to be able to contact that person

[00:05:27] because that person will also go around to all the rooms

[00:05:29] and do take kids out for toilet breaks and things like that.

[00:05:32] You need one of those old school pages that we had in the 90s

[00:05:35] that I have.

[00:05:36] Some schools still have walkie talkies I think.

[00:05:38] But I just wanted like a really standard thing.

[00:05:41] Like could have been like an old Nokia or something like that.

[00:05:44] Just something that can receive text messages.

[00:05:46] Well, once you play Snake on.

[00:05:47] You play Snake, yeah.

[00:05:48] And find texting really difficult.

[00:05:51] But yeah, so anyway I fought and fought

[00:05:54] and in the end the school did give me this phone.

[00:05:57] And it's a phone that was sort of sat in a drawer in reception

[00:06:02] and it was called the reception mobile.

[00:06:04] And I was assured that the only purpose it had

[00:06:08] was that if all of our phones and systems went down

[00:06:11] there was this phone that could be used to contact people with.

[00:06:15] So it's like an emergency phone.

[00:06:17] But the reception have, they have phones?

[00:06:20] No, I have proper phones, yeah.

[00:06:22] But that was like if the system went down.

[00:06:24] Oh, the system goes down.

[00:06:25] Okay, right, okay.

[00:06:26] So anyway, so we got this phone and I've been assured

[00:06:28] it never gets used for anything.

[00:06:30] And so a couple of days ago I switched it on

[00:06:33] and it sort of kept buzzing away in my drawer

[00:06:37] and I was like, oh, what's going on?

[00:06:39] And I looked at it the other day.

[00:06:40] There are a few phone calls on it.

[00:06:41] So I just sort of blocked the numbers.

[00:06:43] I thought they might be spam or something like that.

[00:06:45] Anyway, one of my, my roving invigilator today

[00:06:47] has got the phone and it keeps going off with the same number.

[00:06:50] So in the end she answers it and it's apparent.

[00:06:53] No.

[00:06:54] Yeah, he's trying to find out something about their child.

[00:06:57] And so she gives them the main reception number

[00:07:02] and says call that number.

[00:07:04] And then a couple of minutes later the phone goes off again

[00:07:07] and it's her again.

[00:07:08] And she's like, I don't understand what's happened.

[00:07:10] I called the reception.

[00:07:12] Anyway, it turns out that this phone re-routes

[00:07:15] any calls that don't get through the reception to this mobile.

[00:07:19] So...

[00:07:20] There's no one noticed it going off in a drawer.

[00:07:22] Well, no, it had been switched off for ages.

[00:07:25] So nobody had been using it.

[00:07:26] So all of a sudden now we're getting phone calls

[00:07:29] that are from reception.

[00:07:30] During the exam.

[00:07:31] And all I wanted was a phone where someone could get text.

[00:07:35] Also with the invigilator announcements, you know,

[00:07:39] the exam announcements, isn't it?

[00:07:41] All over it obviously don't have mobile phones.

[00:07:43] Mobile phones not going off.

[00:07:45] Yeah.

[00:07:46] It's not a good luck.

[00:07:47] You don't want a phone that's going off all the time though.

[00:07:49] Definitely not.

[00:07:50] And also just like it's not appropriate for my invigilators

[00:07:52] to be talking to parents.

[00:07:53] No, due to religiously-sassy exam.

[00:07:55] So that was an unforeseen pain.

[00:07:58] So I'm going to have to sort out a different phone now

[00:08:00] or try and kind of argue for getting a new phone.

[00:08:04] So there was that bigger issue this afternoon

[00:08:07] was that our computer reader software just stopped working.

[00:08:11] Explain the reader software.

[00:08:13] So some students have an access arrangement in exams,

[00:08:18] which means that they are...

[00:08:20] The exam paper can be read to them.

[00:08:22] So that can either be read to them by human being

[00:08:25] or using software.

[00:08:28] And obviously from a school's point of view,

[00:08:30] using the software is better if we can do it because...

[00:08:33] There aren't many humans.

[00:08:35] Yeah, there aren't so many humans.

[00:08:37] Obviously TAs are precious in short supply

[00:08:40] and we want them in the classroom supporting students.

[00:08:42] So reader software is great

[00:08:45] except it just wouldn't load up today at all.

[00:08:48] So there was an IT problem and we couldn't get onto it.

[00:08:52] But so that was very stressful for the invigilator

[00:08:55] who was doing that room.

[00:08:57] She was obviously quite stressed out by that

[00:09:00] and the IT team managed to solve it right at the last minute,

[00:09:04] which was great but that just felt very, very stressful.

[00:09:08] And then yeah, we've got science tomorrow morning

[00:09:11] so it's just been a really busy day

[00:09:13] trying to get set up for tomorrow morning.

[00:09:15] We've got so many different arrangements in place.

[00:09:18] I had so many laptops to set up this afternoon.

[00:09:21] So how many kids have you got set in GCSE Science tomorrow?

[00:09:25] Tomorrow it's about 240 I think doing science tomorrow.

[00:09:30] Yeah, so you're just sort of at the end...

[00:09:33] So a lot of students, isn't it? Across the country.

[00:09:36] Yeah, and at the end of the day

[00:09:38] I didn't feel as much that things were as under control

[00:09:43] as I would have wanted them to be.

[00:09:45] And so you know you're going to go in tomorrow morning

[00:09:48] feeling, oh God, I hope everything works

[00:09:50] and I hope everything's okay.

[00:09:52] Hope I've got a phone, etc.

[00:09:54] One thing I have noticed over the years

[00:09:56] is that it is a weird phenomenon

[00:09:58] that it's often the days where you don't expect it

[00:10:01] that are harder.

[00:10:02] And I don't know if there's something to do

[00:10:04] with the fact that you're less switched on

[00:10:06] or everybody is just less switched on.

[00:10:11] But I tend to find that the bigger exam days,

[00:10:14] I mean touch wood, but the bigger exam days

[00:10:17] tend to go better.

[00:10:20] But I did also think today,

[00:10:22] if I was a new exams officer and this was my first day

[00:10:24] of exams today and the things that happened to me

[00:10:27] and happened to a lot of people around the country

[00:10:29] had happened, I think I would have found it very difficult.

[00:10:35] With years of experience you can kind of be like

[00:10:38] okay these days happen and in the end

[00:10:40] I'm sure it'll all be fine.

[00:10:42] But yeah, if you were new to it,

[00:10:44] so if you are new to it, I really sympathise.

[00:10:47] It's been a tricky start for a lot of people.

[00:10:52] Fingers crossed, tomorrow will be.

[00:10:54] So yeah, the only way is up.

[00:10:55] Smoothly run and tomorrow for everyone.

[00:10:58] That's the tree.

[00:11:07] Exams have been in the news a lot as well, haven't they?

[00:11:10] As well as just not in this house.

[00:11:12] Yeah, I mean I think that this happens every year

[00:11:15] as far as I can remember.

[00:11:17] There's always like the week before exams,

[00:11:19] there's always like stories and news.

[00:11:22] They've taken a sort of similar form over the last couple of years.

[00:11:26] The main thing seems to be about kind of scams.

[00:11:31] So people posting what they claim to be exam papers

[00:11:36] that have been leaked online

[00:11:38] and then charging people to get access to them.

[00:11:41] And there's a whole thing on apparently on the TikTok

[00:11:45] is about these sites where you can get exam papers.

[00:11:51] And they are scams.

[00:11:52] I can confirm that they are scams.

[00:11:54] So we would know about them, I would know about them by now

[00:11:57] if there had been any genuine leaks.

[00:11:59] The exam boards obviously monitor these social media things

[00:12:03] as closely as they possibly can.

[00:12:06] That's not to say that obviously leaks

[00:12:08] never happened or couldn't happen.

[00:12:10] But it would have to be done.

[00:12:12] Have you ever had anything happen at your school?

[00:12:15] No, I think there was.

[00:12:17] I do remember a few years ago,

[00:12:18] I think there was an A-level maths paper that was genuinely leaked.

[00:12:22] And I think some of our students had seen that paper.

[00:12:25] I can't remember what they did about it in the end.

[00:12:31] But like I say, it can happen.

[00:12:32] But it requires either kind of gross negligence

[00:12:37] on the part of a school, of an exam centre

[00:12:41] that obviously allows something to be stolen or to get out

[00:12:45] or someone in the school deliberately doing it.

[00:12:49] Which would obviously be an incredibly silly and risky thing to do.

[00:12:54] So I don't think it happens very often.

[00:12:59] The more common reason why we get replacement exams,

[00:13:03] so we sometimes get replacement exam papers,

[00:13:05] tends not to be because papers have been leaked.

[00:13:07] It tends to just be because there was an error

[00:13:10] in a paper or something like that.

[00:13:13] So it's not that common.

[00:13:16] But there was an actual story,

[00:13:21] an actual proper leak which happened with the International Baccalaureate.

[00:13:26] Yeah.

[00:13:27] And the reason...

[00:13:28] Yeah, we've heard from a few schools, haven't we?

[00:13:30] Yeah, to call it a leak is probably a bit much actually.

[00:13:33] So all it is really is that because IB is obviously a cross-continent,

[00:13:38] there are students taking the exams earlier than other students.

[00:13:42] Yeah, across time zones.

[00:13:44] So they're not all on the same schedule.

[00:13:47] So there is the possibility of students who have done it earlier

[00:13:50] sharing it online and then students in a later time zone

[00:13:54] seeing it and being able to benefit from that.

[00:13:56] Apparently it was a very small issue,

[00:14:00] a small number of students that might have been affected by this.

[00:14:04] And as we understand it, IB are monitoring the situation with it.

[00:14:10] But yeah, so exams are in the news.

[00:14:14] Yeah, but it seems to be like a kind of yearly occurrence now

[00:14:20] that you get these stories about these scams,

[00:14:23] which are horrible really, aren't they?

[00:14:25] Yeah, very unsettling for everyone, aren't they?

[00:14:27] Yeah, just the thing of defrauding young kids.

[00:14:30] You can understand why any kid,

[00:14:32] particularly they're feeling a bit desperate now around

[00:14:35] just coming out to their exams,

[00:14:37] why they might be enticed by something like that.

[00:14:40] But we have to be very responsible here

[00:14:44] and say to anybody that if you see anything online

[00:14:47] that you think looks suspicious,

[00:14:49] that could be a scam or could be the real deal

[00:14:53] then to make sure that you report it to the relevant exam board.

[00:15:03] So we've got a bit of an antidote today

[00:15:06] to all the stress and drama of this first major week of exams.

[00:15:11] And we are going to be speaking to Simon Robinson,

[00:15:14] who's the examinations officer at Moncton Coombs School.

[00:15:18] The school is one of the top independent schools in the country,

[00:15:23] set in a really idyllic setting.

[00:15:27] I really recommend going on to their website,

[00:15:30] which is one of the most mesmerizing websites of all time.

[00:15:33] I lost about an hour just scrolling the website the other day

[00:15:39] because it's so beautiful.

[00:15:41] So if the website is anything to go by,

[00:15:44] I'm sure that is a really, really quite incredible place

[00:15:48] to work and live for some of the students.

[00:15:51] So we had a really brilliant, far-reaching chat

[00:15:55] with Simon about all things to exams,

[00:15:57] how he fell into it later on in his career.

[00:16:01] And we thought it'd be really interesting to hear about the differences.

[00:16:04] He's also got such a lovely calm tone as well,

[00:16:07] as they wish it's like perfect.

[00:16:09] He's also in the middle of moving house

[00:16:12] and for someone who is in the middle of moving house

[00:16:15] and about to run exams, he's incredibly chilled out.

[00:16:18] Yeah.

[00:16:19] Yeah, so I think you're going to find it very soothing.

[00:16:22] Yeah, definitely.

[00:16:32] Okay, so we're very pleased to have Simon Robinson with us.

[00:16:36] He is going to be one of the exams officers

[00:16:38] who we're going to follow through the exam season.

[00:16:42] Simon, thank you very much for joining us.

[00:16:44] Can you just tell us a little bit about your school first of all,

[00:16:48] where it is and what sort of school it is?

[00:16:51] So I work at Moncton School, which is just outside of Bath.

[00:16:56] It is an independent school with about 400 pupils in the senior school.

[00:17:03] So I'm the exams officer, I'm part time.

[00:17:08] Okay.

[00:17:09] And I guess from listening to your conversation with Marina

[00:17:13] on what you'd call old school.

[00:17:16] I was a head of department before I became an exams officer.

[00:17:22] Do you know what?

[00:17:23] I'm quite surprised because I sort of thought that there were a few people like that

[00:17:29] who were in teaching roles or in senior roles

[00:17:32] who had gone into being exams officers.

[00:17:34] But actually, we're coming across more and more.

[00:17:37] I think it's actually more common than I thought.

[00:17:41] So what made you make that move into doing exams?

[00:17:46] I actually kind of retired from teaching in 2017

[00:17:52] and moved down to this neck of the woods

[00:17:55] because my wife had history down here.

[00:17:58] Okay.

[00:17:59] And so, yeah, a slightly kind of bizarre,

[00:18:03] the principle of where I was working in Hertfordshire used to be the principle at Moncton.

[00:18:08] Right.

[00:18:09] So sent word before I arrived that I was arriving.

[00:18:13] Yeah, yeah.

[00:18:14] So I ended up doing some kind of science supply teaching.

[00:18:17] Right.

[00:18:18] And was then asked if I'd like to be the exams officer.

[00:18:21] Brilliant.

[00:18:22] I love that story.

[00:18:23] And did you jump at that opportunity?

[00:18:26] Well, actually the part-time element really appealed to me,

[00:18:31] although it's a classic comment that Deputy Head said to me in the interview

[00:18:36] that he described the job as being lumpy.

[00:18:39] And yeah, we're about to enter the great big lump.

[00:18:43] Oh, I see.

[00:18:45] Okay.

[00:18:46] Do you think it's lumpy?

[00:18:49] Yeah.

[00:18:50] Yeah.

[00:18:51] I mean, a description.

[00:18:52] I'm fortunate actually because I also have an exams administrator

[00:18:57] who works with New Florence and she also does your job.

[00:19:00] She's the school data manager.

[00:19:02] Okay.

[00:19:03] Okay.

[00:19:04] So we are an exams team plus the invigilators.

[00:19:10] So I work four days a week,

[00:19:16] but I have this sort of flexible arrangement where I then during the exam season,

[00:19:21] I work five, so I work compressed hours over four days most of the year.

[00:19:26] And then when exams are running, I just work like a,

[00:19:30] I say like a normal week,

[00:19:32] but obviously it's not a normal week itself.

[00:19:34] Like, you know, from dawn till dusk kind of thing.

[00:19:38] Well, yes.

[00:19:39] I've got a very insane Irish setter.

[00:19:42] So in order to walk her,

[00:19:44] I had to get up about quarter past five in the morning

[00:19:47] to get the morning walk out of the way.

[00:19:49] Your step count must be amazing.

[00:19:51] If you have to do a dog walk before as well.

[00:19:54] It was about 30,000 steps a day last exam season.

[00:19:57] Crikey.

[00:19:58] Yeah.

[00:19:59] Yeah.

[00:20:00] I was doing about, I was walking to and from work.

[00:20:02] I was doing about 20 to 25,000,

[00:20:04] but obviously I don't have a dog.

[00:20:05] So it wasn't as extreme as yours.

[00:20:09] So on the kind of subject of running exams,

[00:20:13] what are the things that you're most kind of dreading

[00:20:16] and what are the things you're most looking forward to about,

[00:20:19] you know, going into an exam season?

[00:20:21] I'm actually pretty relaxed about it.

[00:20:24] I used to give this really corny advice to students

[00:20:28] who were super anxious about exams.

[00:20:31] You know, I used to say, well,

[00:20:33] are you going to try your best and they'd look at me

[00:20:35] and say, well, of course I am.

[00:20:37] And I'd say, well, then you've got nothing to worry about.

[00:20:40] Yeah.

[00:20:41] And that applies, that advice applies to me.

[00:20:44] We've done lots of preparation.

[00:20:46] We're continuing to prepare.

[00:20:48] Yeah.

[00:20:49] So what will happen will happen.

[00:20:51] The future will take care of itself.

[00:20:53] Yeah.

[00:20:54] That's a very good attitude, I think.

[00:20:56] It helps that I'm near retirement

[00:20:58] and I don't have another job to go to.

[00:21:00] This will be my final jobs.

[00:21:02] So, yeah, I don't have to worry about my future career

[00:21:05] and some disaster befalling me.

[00:21:07] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:21:08] Because we have talked about, haven't we,

[00:21:10] so far about that thing of like people worrying

[00:21:12] about making mistakes.

[00:21:13] Yeah.

[00:21:14] Definitely.

[00:21:15] I mean, I've certainly got like much more over time,

[00:21:17] much more comfortable with that, you know?

[00:21:19] Because you're working in a school

[00:21:21] and schools are, you know, they can be somewhat...

[00:21:23] Complex, messy organisations.

[00:21:25] Yeah, environments and things like that.

[00:21:27] Things will go wrong, you know, from time to time

[00:21:29] and it's very rarely the end of the world.

[00:21:32] No, but I suppose the advice I'd give to any new exams officer

[00:21:37] and there always seem to be plenty of those.

[00:21:39] It is preparation is everything.

[00:21:42] Yeah.

[00:21:43] If you can prepare to the nth degree

[00:21:45] and so the exams just kind of run themselves.

[00:21:48] Yeah.

[00:21:49] It means that you're going to be able to do

[00:21:51] something that's not really a good thing

[00:21:53] and you're going to be able to do something

[00:21:55] that's not really a good thing.

[00:21:57] And so, you know, it's just that

[00:21:59] you're going to be able to run themselves.

[00:22:01] Yeah.

[00:22:02] It means that you've got the space to deal with

[00:22:04] with the stuff that always happens.

[00:22:06] Yeah.

[00:22:07] I sort of always feel that these weeks right now,

[00:22:09] the weeks that we're in and maybe the ones just before

[00:22:12] used to...

[00:22:13] These ones are the key ones, really, aren't they?

[00:22:15] Once you get into running it,

[00:22:17] it's sort of just...

[00:22:19] You get a kind of rhythm and momentum

[00:22:28] but it's these weeks where you really determine

[00:22:30] who you are looking at it before you spoke to you

[00:22:32] and literally mesmerise by it.

[00:22:34] So, whoever does your website is beautiful.

[00:22:37] I will pass that on but the actual

[00:22:40] location of the school is in this valley,

[00:22:43] outside Bath.

[00:22:44] It is just to die for.

[00:22:45] Yeah.

[00:22:46] It's a great location.

[00:22:47] It looked amazing.

[00:22:48] It looks stunning, yeah.

[00:22:50] Yeah.

[00:22:51] I mean, something else I feel very sort of fortunate about

[00:22:54] is that I do...

[00:22:55] I mean, my line manager,

[00:22:57] this is going to sound quite bizarre,

[00:22:59] but my garden...

[00:23:00] Mum's flat!

[00:23:03] I mean, actually just over my garden wall.

[00:23:05] Really?

[00:23:06] She lives in...

[00:23:07] We live in this village just outside Bradford on Avon.

[00:23:09] Is that deliberate?

[00:23:11] No, bizarrely actually.

[00:23:15] I was living here and I'd kind of started at Moncton

[00:23:18] but she was on maternity leave so I didn't know her

[00:23:21] when she moved in next door to me

[00:23:23] and then we discovered we were colleagues.

[00:23:27] But it's great actually, so during Covid

[00:23:30] which we were talking about last week,

[00:23:32] you know, we were having quite a few

[00:23:35] kind of socially distanced outdoor meetings

[00:23:37] over the garden wall.

[00:23:38] It was really handy.

[00:23:39] That's great.

[00:23:40] That's great.

[00:23:41] I mean, that probably sounds like some people's

[00:23:42] worst nightmare to live at the end but

[00:23:44] I guess it depends on your relationship, doesn't it?

[00:23:53] I was popped into lunch at the beginning

[00:23:55] of the exam season last year

[00:23:57] and just happened to sit opposite the principal.

[00:24:00] But he just said to me,

[00:24:02] I really don't fancy your job.

[00:24:06] And I said to him,

[00:24:08] well Chris, that's funny because I don't fancy yours either.

[00:24:11] Yeah.

[00:24:12] And we had a great kind of ten minutes

[00:24:14] discussing why we wouldn't want to do each other's job.

[00:24:17] And what did he say?

[00:24:18] Why did he not want to do your job?

[00:24:23] It was all the things you kind of expect,

[00:24:25] you know, the kind of responsibility.

[00:24:27] Yeah.

[00:24:29] The senior management responsibility

[00:24:31] without the senior management pay, I guess.

[00:24:36] Yeah, and I think actually a lot of people

[00:24:38] from the outside looking in,

[00:24:40] they look at our job and think,

[00:24:42] crikey that, how could you possibly do that?

[00:24:45] I get this response all the time.

[00:24:47] Yeah.

[00:24:49] But actually when you do it, it's, you know...

[00:24:51] Yeah, and I think it sort of appeals

[00:24:53] to a certain kind of person as well, doesn't it?

[00:24:55] Like you hear that quite,

[00:24:56] I hear that quite a lot of like,

[00:24:58] it's almost like there are some people

[00:25:00] just built for it, you know.

[00:25:03] But a lot of people who look at it

[00:25:05] and it's like their worst nightmare basically.

[00:25:09] It's interesting though that the head teacher said

[00:25:12] like that the level of responsibility

[00:25:14] of the job was like...

[00:25:15] It's great recognition.

[00:25:16] I'm not sure I want that.

[00:25:19] It does tell you something, doesn't it?

[00:25:22] What's really quite bizarre in a way,

[00:25:24] and perhaps I shouldn't record this, is that...

[00:25:27] You must know this.

[00:25:29] Almost everything you do as an exams officer,

[00:25:31] you do it in the name of the head of centre.

[00:25:35] Yes, yeah.

[00:25:36] Yeah.

[00:25:37] I mean it's like the head of centre

[00:25:38] is like a symbolic role, isn't it?

[00:25:40] It's like ceremonial.

[00:25:42] Like it's like the king or something.

[00:25:44] He doesn't have any actual influence on the process.

[00:25:50] We might be out of keep that in.

[00:25:52] No.

[00:25:57] That was so brilliant.

[00:26:05] So we have...

[00:26:08] I've got nine invigilators,

[00:26:09] which is actually quite a lot for me.

[00:26:13] Because we've got...

[00:26:14] I'm not quite sure why,

[00:26:15] but we've got three or four GCSE students

[00:26:18] who are doing...

[00:26:19] This winds me up enormously.

[00:26:21] They're doing speech to text.

[00:26:23] Right.

[00:26:25] Oh, gosh.

[00:26:26] Yeah.

[00:26:27] So we need separate rooms for them.

[00:26:29] So I'm having to...

[00:26:30] And that's a bit of a challenge

[00:26:31] because you increase the number of invigilators,

[00:26:34] which means you can't give each invigilator

[00:26:36] as much invigilation as they actually want.

[00:26:39] Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:41] I always think there's like a golden number with invigilators

[00:26:44] because if you recruit too many,

[00:26:47] then you're not able to give everyone enough work

[00:26:49] and then obviously people don't get frustrated.

[00:26:51] But then obviously if you've got too few,

[00:26:53] then you've got a real problem on your hands

[00:26:55] and there's like a really...

[00:26:56] You have to kind of try and figure it out every year.

[00:26:58] Like what's my number this year?

[00:27:01] Right, that is what I've got.

[00:27:04] But I'm actually blessed

[00:27:05] because Moncton employees,

[00:27:07] we have eight graduate teaching assistants

[00:27:10] who I also train up as invigilators.

[00:27:12] So any shortfall I get,

[00:27:14] poor old GTA's get...

[00:27:16] That's really interesting.

[00:27:19] And it's really...

[00:27:20] So I don't lose sleep over whether I've got enough invigilation cover.

[00:27:24] I won't go near a teacher

[00:27:25] because having been a teacher myself,

[00:27:27] I know absolutely how useless we are at invigilation.

[00:27:30] Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:32] Do you ever do it yourself?

[00:27:33] I hate it.

[00:27:36] I do as well.

[00:27:37] I do.

[00:27:38] I never last more than about 10 minutes.

[00:27:40] I'm like, I can't...

[00:27:41] I have so much time for people who can just like

[00:27:44] for two and a half hours just like sit there

[00:27:46] because I'm just...

[00:27:47] I find it impossible.

[00:27:48] Yeah.

[00:27:49] I did it for all my teaching career

[00:27:54] and was utterly useless at it.

[00:27:56] Yeah, I didn't...

[00:27:57] Have you used this in the sense

[00:27:58] that you didn't enjoy doing it

[00:27:59] or that like you just couldn't pay attention or what?

[00:28:05] To be honest, we didn't know the regulations

[00:28:07] when it actually came in

[00:28:08] that JCQs would be had to be trained

[00:28:10] about, was it 10 years ago or something?

[00:28:13] Yeah.

[00:28:14] I can remember sitting this training session

[00:28:16] just wondering what on earth I was doing.

[00:28:18] And you'd swap invigilations, of course,

[00:28:23] so you ended up invigilating your own subject.

[00:28:25] Yeah.

[00:28:26] You'd know who the staff were

[00:28:28] who were utterly useless and unreliable

[00:28:30] then you wouldn't get relieved on time.

[00:28:32] Yeah, yeah.

[00:28:34] And as you got more kind of...

[00:28:36] as a head of department,

[00:28:37] the kind of tail end of the summer term

[00:28:40] you've got all this kind of planning

[00:28:42] for the next year to do

[00:28:43] and you just end up really resenting the time

[00:28:46] you were invigilating.

[00:28:47] It's time for you to do me, isn't it?

[00:28:49] Yeah.

[00:28:50] Did you do it?

[00:28:51] So did you have to invigilate when you were a teacher?

[00:28:53] Yeah, all the time.

[00:28:54] Yeah.

[00:28:55] Literally.

[00:28:56] Because what was that, 15, 20 years ago?

[00:28:58] 20 years ago.

[00:28:59] But all teachers did it.

[00:29:01] No external invigilation.

[00:29:03] It was just part of your timetable.

[00:29:05] Yeah.

[00:29:06] We obviously sometimes use teachers for mock exams

[00:29:08] and I mean the level

[00:29:10] is like you're dragging people to go.

[00:29:13] Which I totally...

[00:29:14] I obviously completely understand that it's not a dig

[00:29:17] but yeah, I think having a separate

[00:29:20] trained invigilation team is a good...

[00:29:22] is generally a good thing.

[00:29:24] And actually that's part of the job

[00:29:26] I enjoy most I think as you alluded to

[00:29:29] is running that team.

[00:29:30] Yeah.

[00:29:31] It's good fun.

[00:29:32] Yeah, no it's nice isn't it?

[00:29:34] You love it don't you?

[00:29:35] Yeah, yeah definitely.

[00:29:36] We'll do an episode on invigilators aren't we?

[00:29:39] Yeah, I am planning to do one in the pub

[00:29:41] with my invigilators at the end hopefully.

[00:29:45] I'm always amazed.

[00:29:46] I mean I got an invigilator at the moment.

[00:29:48] I mean she's been all over the world as a diplomat

[00:29:51] and I think well why do you want to invigilate

[00:29:54] at you know 11 pound 44 an hour?

[00:29:56] I just don't quite...

[00:29:58] But she loves it.

[00:30:00] She really enjoys it.

[00:30:01] Do you have a hunch why she enjoys it?

[00:30:05] I think, I mean she enjoys the fact

[00:30:08] that actually I'm in charge

[00:30:10] and all she has to do is come in

[00:30:13] and do her job and go.

[00:30:16] Yeah, yeah.

[00:30:17] And yeah the invigilators all know each other

[00:30:20] they enjoy meeting each other.

[00:30:22] It's sometimes a bit of a struggle at the start of the exam

[00:30:24] to say hey guys we've got an exam to run

[00:30:27] can we just kind of focus on the exam

[00:30:29] because they're also happy to see each other again.

[00:30:31] Yeah, yeah.

[00:30:32] I one of my invigilators Phil

[00:30:35] he's like one of my lead invigilators

[00:30:37] he often says to me about like

[00:30:39] he really enjoys coming in but

[00:30:41] he's so glad that he doesn't have any

[00:30:43] you know that it's not like he's in charge

[00:30:45] he doesn't have the ultimate responsibility

[00:30:48] his likes make such a difference

[00:30:50] and you know and like

[00:30:53] and also I think the thing

[00:30:55] he often talks about is being able to

[00:30:58] to have a bit of flexibility

[00:31:01] so he's quite reliable quite regular

[00:31:03] but like just that thing of like yeah no

[00:31:05] I can't do this particular date

[00:31:07] you know and being able to

[00:31:09] say that rather than you know like

[00:31:11] rather than the kind of drudgery

[00:31:13] of every single day

[00:31:15] yeah seems to be appealing

[00:31:17] and I guess as well the other thing is like

[00:31:19] is when you're retired

[00:31:21] like having just having contact isn't it

[00:31:23] having contact with people on a regular

[00:31:25] basis.

[00:31:26] So really important in your community as well.

[00:31:28] Yeah and doing something like that's

[00:31:30] helpful and valuable and all that sort of stuff.

[00:31:34] We have the attraction that you know

[00:31:37] all the meals and stuff are free

[00:31:39] for a month and so

[00:31:41] yeah they quite enjoy that sort of

[00:31:44] aspect as well.

[00:31:46] Do they eat with this do they go in

[00:31:48] and eat with the students or?

[00:31:50] Yeah we all eat with the students.

[00:31:52] Yeah that's good isn't it that's nice

[00:31:54] because then they really feel part of it

[00:31:56] I guess really part of the school.

[00:31:58] Quite a few invigilators kind of

[00:32:01] treat it as a kind of they're often

[00:32:04] mothers who've had children and this is

[00:32:06] their first kind of step back in the

[00:32:08] world of work.

[00:32:09] Right yeah and so many of them go

[00:32:11] Simon that was great and they've got

[00:32:13] themselves another job so you find

[00:32:15] there's this kind of conveyor belt as

[00:32:17] they move on.

[00:32:18] Yeah I always think that whenever I get

[00:32:20] because I think pretty much all of my

[00:32:22] invigilators are round about retirement age

[00:32:24] but every now and then I get a young

[00:32:26] younger person and it's great because

[00:32:28] it like it puts a bit of fresh

[00:32:30] energy into the team and the rest

[00:32:32] of the team really like having someone

[00:32:34] younger there as well but I always

[00:32:36] know it's like this is going to be

[00:32:38] short-lived.

[00:32:39] You wouldn't expect someone like in their

[00:32:41] 20s to stay invigilating forever so

[00:32:44] yeah but it is nice from time to time

[00:32:48] when you get that little

[00:32:50] injection of young blood.

[00:32:52] Yeah we get some university

[00:32:55] students as well because Brian's

[00:32:57] a...

[00:32:58] I tend to just

[00:33:01] I don't even look at you know young

[00:33:04] people that young university

[00:33:07] students because you know it's

[00:33:09] only going to be for one season

[00:33:11] and you have to put that much training

[00:33:13] into them these days.

[00:33:14] Yeah yeah it's hardly worth it.

[00:33:16] It has changed the calculation on that

[00:33:18] definitely.

[00:33:25] And I hope you get time to run some exams John.

[00:33:27] Yeah well I'm screened.

[00:33:31] I'm not quite sure if this is sensible

[00:33:33] but I know we thought

[00:33:35] I think we'll do a lot now isn't it

[00:33:37] just before and

[00:33:39] we would just complete

[00:33:41] as well completely wiped out over

[00:33:43] Easter so we both had

[00:33:45] like we're both ill and it was

[00:33:47] like and at one point I think

[00:33:49] towards the end of the first week

[00:33:51] and I was starting to think oh god

[00:33:52] we've got to do it a podcast next week.

[00:33:54] What have I done?

[00:33:56] Need to have a talk.

[00:33:58] Why have I done this to myself?

[00:34:00] What I've got to do is get

[00:34:02] myself a nice big microphone like

[00:34:04] you've got.

[00:34:05] It's kind of a status symbol.

[00:34:06] You do, yeah.

[00:34:07] I know what I'm doing.

[00:34:08] So it's got one as well but she's

[00:34:10] not angled in a way that you can

[00:34:12] sit.

[00:34:13] I'm not showing off.

[00:34:14] As we were sort of talking to you about

[00:34:16] before we are

[00:34:17] we're going to send you out aren't we

[00:34:19] as a kind of a reporter

[00:34:21] so you are going to

[00:34:23] update us periodically

[00:34:25] during the exam season about

[00:34:27] how things are going and how you're getting on.

[00:34:29] So we look forward to hearing from you

[00:34:31] and yeah and just

[00:34:33] wanted to wish you best of luck and

[00:34:35] hope it all goes smoothly and calmly

[00:34:37] as I'm sure it will.

[00:34:39] Well thank you.

[00:34:41] I hope I'm as cheerful in my reports

[00:34:43] as I am now.

[00:34:45] You don't have to be.

[00:34:47] I hope so too.

[00:34:49] Okay lovely to talk to you.

[00:34:51] And you guys take care.

[00:34:53] Take care.

[00:34:57] Thank you so much for listening to the

[00:34:59] exam man podcast.

[00:35:00] We really really appreciate your support.

[00:35:02] Remember that you can access it on

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[00:35:06] Give us a rating, give us a follow

[00:35:08] and we will catch you next time.

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