How To Keep Your Exams Officer

[00:00:13] So John, how's it going? How has your half term been? Yeah, I've got cold inevitably, always, always with the school holidays, end up sick. But yeah, it's been alright. Quite busy aren't you with work as well, going into mocks as well? Yeah, so although we've had a week off, actually weirdly the Friday of half term was quite a big day in the world of exams because it was the entry deadline day.

[00:00:39] So that's the time where you have to get all your entries for the summer exams entered. We've talked about this before, haven't we? Is that absolutely fine if you've been totally organised and done it in December? Yeah, well, so I actually did get quite organised this year and I started doing it in December. But I did it kind of piecemeal, so I didn't do them all at once. There are some entries that are easier to do than others. I won't go into the detail because it's boring. But I started doing it in December. This is one area that you could go into the detail though.

[00:01:07] Well, one thing that I have noticed is that if you do your entries kind of piecemeal, I think in some weird way it increases the stress. Because if you do it all at once, you sort of know that you've done it all. Whereas if you're doing it bit by bit as you go by, your sort of memory for what you've done starts to get a bit hazy. So you're saying you shouldn't be too organised then? Absolutely. Is that your advice? That's always my advice. But we've had quite a week, haven't we, this week?

[00:01:37] It's been busy. It's been great. We've been all over the place. And so I hadn't really been thinking about the entry deadline. That makes it sound like we were doing something really exciting, but we weren't. We were damp proofing our hands. No, damp proofing our house. But because we've had a lot going on, I wasn't really thinking about the entry deadline. Did you miss it? Well, no. But I was sure that I had done it all. So I was like, I'm pretty sure that I've done this.

[00:02:01] And then it got round to Friday and I was like, I need to just check on Friday today, do an audit, make sure that I've done all my entries. And then stuff happened on Friday and completely forgot to do it. And I woke up this morning, Sunday morning, and suddenly was like, oh God, I didn't audit the entries. So I went into a panic and, yeah, had to go and check them. And presumably it's okay because you're smiling. Yeah, it's all right. It's okay.

[00:02:32] So the way I checked it, which is slightly stupid, is that I went and looked at the, like in our exams planning software, I went and looked at the seating plans for the exams. And that lists all the exams by date. So you can just run through it quickly and check that you've got all your subjects. And I was looking through that and I was like, oh no, oh no, I haven't got any art. I haven't done any art or photography. There's no art and photography on there.

[00:02:58] Went into a mad panic, but then realised, of course, that art and photography don't do written exams. So they don't appear on that schedule. How long have you been an exams officer? Yeah, I know. So we did, we have talked about this, like in previous podcasts, one of the first things we touched on, and it's something that people keep coming back to about how hitting the entry deadline is like one of the most stressful things. And really expensive if you don't do it. Yeah, because the implications, if you don't, are so massive.

[00:03:24] You know, you could end up spending thousands and thousands of pounds in late fees for your school if you don't hit that deadline. So there's a lot of pressure around it. And people rightly kind of feel the stress about it. So I hope that everyone out there who's listening has managed to get their entries done okay. If not, you've just reminded them. They've just turned up to work today, the listeners. Yeah.

[00:03:53] Yeah, sorry about that. So this week we are actually going to talk about some of those issues that can make the exams job challenging. And in particular, we're going to talk about the issue of retaining exams officers and the turnover of new exams officers in schools. Because, you know, we do have to be real about this.

[00:04:16] There is a job whereby quite a lot of people start it and then feel that they're not able to continue. And we talked, haven't we, in other episodes about, you know, all the weird and wonderful things that people are doing before they come into the world of exams. But we haven't really talked that much about this side of things. Yeah. About people leaving. And it's interesting because it gets you to think about, you know, what makes a good exams officer and what sort of people and what sort of backgrounds might be suitable for the role.

[00:04:45] So we got ourselves an expert guest on this week, didn't we? So we've got, we've chatted to Paula Wood, who's really experienced in the area of exams. And she founded and leads a company that trains exams officers and also supports centres with their running of exams as well. Yeah, it's a really good chat. Yeah. And she was an exams officer herself way back in the day. So she knows the job really well. Like you, she gets it. She gets it. So enjoy the interview.

[00:05:15] Could you tell us, Paula, a little bit about what you do and how you've come to work with exams officers? That would be really interesting. Okay. Well, I'm the founder and director of Exam Officers and Data Solutions Limited, or we call it EODS for short. So I was an exams manager for many years. Like a lot of people, though, I just fell into the role.

[00:05:45] I went as a bed manager in the NHS. I really was looking for something that was a bit more family friendly. So I saw the job as an exams officer. So your logistics must be amazing if that was your job in the NHS. And I think that's how it worked well coming from exams. Looking back, I've always worked, it seems, in high pressure environments. So I started work as an exams officer.

[00:06:13] Literally, my induction, my first day was, there's your keys to the office. There's a thing called SIMS on the computer. Can you try and figure it out? Because our exam entries are due next week. And they cost about £100,000. And they'll become £200,000 unless we do it on a certain date. And I was like, working in the NHS, everybody has a really good induction.

[00:06:38] You don't step foot on the corridors or in the main hospital or on a computer system until you've had all this training. And I was thinking, well, where's the induction? And there wasn't one. And I don't blame my employer at the time. I just don't think they knew where to go for me to have that training and support. But it was a job that I absolutely loved, really enjoyed doing it.

[00:07:05] And then I'd become the longest serving exams officer in the area. So I started a local group that grew into a regional group. I was asked to talk at some DFE events. I started mentoring and training other exams officers in the area. Just because I was the longest serving one. The school where I worked at the time was absolutely fantastic. And with my professional development, the QDOS for them as well.

[00:07:35] And I really sort of enjoyed that training. And I'd always said from that very first day that I'd stepped into a school that one day I would write an online induction or do an induction package for new exams officers. So they had a better induction than I had. So it's nearly seven years ago now since I set up the company. And we operate globally now, training, supporting exams officers,

[00:08:03] registered exam centres, all those centres looking to register to be approved to run exams. So the online induction idea has grown significantly into the range of products and services that we offer now. Fantastic. That's brilliant. Can I ask you, Paula, what it was that you liked about doing the job? What were the particular things that you enjoyed? I think it's the structure. It's the planning.

[00:08:33] People say to me I'm a prolific planner. And that's both in my personal and business life. I enjoy challenges. I enjoy that not every day is the same. It's not a nine to five job that you're doing the same thing day in, day out. Some of the things you only may do once a year. But I also like helping. And I think sharing that student's journey and see that you're part of where they get to when they leave education

[00:09:03] is fantastic. And it's great to be able to be part of that journey with them. Yeah. In terms of your role in sort of providing and helping to train exams officers, what are some of the common issues that you see, particularly with new exams officers starting the role nowadays? Yeah. I think sometimes they come into the role not really knowing what the role is.

[00:09:29] The job advert, the job description hasn't really been relevant. They've had maybe an hour's interview, but not been really given an insight into the exams officer role. Can I just stop you one second, Paula, there? Do you think that is because people within the schools don't really understand the role? Do you think that that's why the job adverts, person specifications aren't often that good? Yes.

[00:09:59] You know, we go into some centres that have got fantastic support from the senior leaders, from the head of centres, and you've got other ones that don't really understand the exams role. And we see this constant chain of the same job advert, the same job description that's not really relevant for the role. So people go for an interview not really knowing what to expect, and suddenly on day one they might be given a short induction, and normally that's your mandatory training,

[00:10:28] but no exams training. Yeah. Or sometimes, you know, they might feel lucky that they've been given a face-to-face training event day, but one day is not enough for such a significant role. Yeah, yeah. I mean... You're perfectly describing my start to being an examiner. Which was... Do you know what I was given? I was given... To be fair to the previous exams officer, I think I was actually lucky from this point of view, but she'd only done the job for a year,

[00:10:57] and maybe we can talk about retention in a little bit, but she'd only done the job for a year, but she'd just left me this massive ring binder full of stuff. And to be fair, that's probably more than a lot of people get. But the problem was that I was looking at this stuff, and a lot of it I just didn't understand it. So I didn't know what it was all talking about. So it was, you know, it's a process then of, like, desperately trying to work out what you're meant to be doing. And I do remember in that first term,

[00:11:25] I probably nearly walked out, like, three or four times. I think that's... In the last, sort of, I would say, three or four years, we've seen a significant rise in our mentoring programme. So centres taking up our mentoring programme, so new exams officers are mentored by an experienced member of our team for the first year. And centres, you know, have seen that constant chain of staff

[00:11:54] at seeing that once they take up that mentoring, because you haven't got people thinking, I want to walk out because I'm on page six and I don't even know how it fits into page seven. Well, it's nice to have someone to ask as well. You've got a specific question about, oh, there is actually someone I can ask who'll know. The answer to that must be really reassuring. I think I was really lucky as well, Paula, because I started... I had an exams assistant when I started. And although she had never done the job or knew nothing about it as well,

[00:12:24] just actually just having another person there who you're in the boat with does actually make a difference as well. So, like you say, that thing of going to a training event is fine, but then you come back and you're on your own again and no one really understands what you're going to be doing. And your mentors must enjoy it as well, because you get to help with all that experience and things that they've learned themselves, isn't it? To help other people is a very rewarding thing. And you're giving back to the people who work.

[00:12:52] I mean, we were in the online communities as well. I think we've got nearly 4,000 members across our two online communities. So people can talk to other exam staff as well. They share best practice and things like that. Because if you are the only one doing it in your centre, it can feel a really lonely place. Yeah, definitely. One thing that does strike me about exams officers is that they are quite well-networked, aren't they? Have you found that? Or do you think there's more that can be done in that respect?

[00:13:22] I think certainly more as in the face-to-face events and sort of growing the online communities. But initially, when you're the new exams officer, it's finding out where those networks are. It's going to them. You're given a ring binder, but is there anything in there about here's somebody's phone number, here's somebody else? All exam centres are required to have a contingency plan. But actually, how robust is that contingency plan

[00:13:51] if exams officers are, or if they don't have an exams officer? Yeah, we're smirking because every time it gets to exam season, we're always having a conversation. If I'm really busy at work, so I was like, well, who's on, you know, what happens if there's something emergency for us? Do you know what I panic about every year? I think I said this in one of the previous episodes, but Paula, it sounds stupid, but I panic about getting norovirus during the exams. Because you know, like most illnesses, you can drag yourself into work, can't you?

[00:14:21] And do it with something like that, you can't. And I'm always like, and obviously, like you say, we have our contingency policy, and I have tested it a couple of times as well. But I still don't, it still doesn't feel, I still don't feel wholly confident with it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, we had a centre that rang us last summer. Yeah, their exams officer had had an accident, so wouldn't be able to work the rest of the summer season, and they wanted us to send in a temporary member of our staff

[00:14:50] to support them. Right, yeah. And we always go through the first questions, you know, where are you at with your planning? And up until the exam season, every single month, their exams officer meets with the head of centre and senior leaders. And during the exam season, every single morning at seven o'clock, they have a senior leadership team meeting and exams officer meeting. So they knew what was going on. That's really good. Yeah, but that's quite unique, shall we say, in that situation.

[00:15:20] It's definitely rare, yeah. Yeah, I mean, one of our members of staff went in to help, and she said it was really quite refreshing that there was other people in the centre that actually knew what was going on. They had a robust contingency plan, and we was able to help and support that. But other people in the centre knew what was happening. They knew about the clashes. They knew about the invigilation. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think a lot of the time you almost feel like something's got to go badly wrong before anyone will sort of take it seriously.

[00:15:51] Do you know what I mean? I think that's it with exams. If they're running really, really well, nobody really gets involved. If something goes wrong, there's malpractice, or the awarding bodies or JCQ get involved, suddenly senior leaders are sort of sitting up and thinking, right, what's happened? What's gone wrong? Yeah, yeah. That's so interesting. Paula, could we just move on and just talk to you about the retention of exams officers for a minute? And I just want to talk about sort of two things, really.

[00:16:21] So the first we've already sort of started to touch on, which is, you know, like, what is it that causes problems for new exams officers? And obviously you've spoken about a lack of training and maybe a bit of a lack of support at times. The other thing that I was wanting to ask you about was about the types of people that you find tend to succeed in exams, the exams world, and what you notice that those people have in common

[00:16:50] or what skills they develop that are useful that help them to stay and give them longevity in the job. I think communication skills are really important because you're dealing with a whole range of stakeholders. And I think it's something that I said at our new to roll exams officer training last week, it's okay to ask people for help. Yeah, yeah. And that's the important thing, you know, if you're really, really struggling, it's okay to say to your line manager,

[00:17:20] I don't think you're supporting me as much as you could be or what you need from them to be able to deliver a robust exam season. As I said, it's got to be somebody who's really good at planning. Yeah. And somebody who sometimes can actually think outside of the box. Yeah. You know, something's gone wrong, how can we deal with it? Somebody who can think on the feet. You know, people come to the exams role

[00:17:48] from a lot of different areas and they bring transferable skills. And it's about how we can grow and support those in the exams officer role or exams professional role, as I like to call it, because there's a lot of different job titles out there now. Yeah. And do you think that it's those basic baseline skills that or attributes that are the most important thing? Or do you think that it's the knowledge about,

[00:18:17] because exams is a very complex area, isn't it? So what's the relationship between those two things? Would you rather have somebody who had a lot of knowledge or would you rather have someone who had those sort of key attributes and skills? In the ideal world, yes. Every school and college would have somebody with knowledge. Yeah. But it's just not possible. So if you've got somebody with those transferable skills, you know, if they do well at the interview,

[00:18:45] just make sure they've got that training and support when they start. And I'm going for the first year at least so they can feel supported. Because they have to understand that as well, if you're coming from a different industry, different sector as well, that working in a school is, you know, Yeah, that's an interesting point. An interesting environment. Because it's not just the exam side of stuff, is it? No. And that thing, what you're saying, Paul, about being really adaptable, you know, it's a really fast pace,

[00:19:14] things change, you have to be a really good planner, but also really good at dealing with change, which is not everyone has that ability, do they? So, yeah. And you're dealing with, you know, you're working in a high-pressure environment as well. And, you know, when I went to school, it's going back a lot of years, and when we sat at our role levels, I don't remember there was a role as such as exams officers. I sat at my desk in my normal classroom and took an exam paper.

[00:19:44] And if you wanted to cheat then, you wrote it on your arm, not that I ever did. But now, it's a whole different area. It's a whole different ballgame running exams. And I don't think there's that awareness, if people are already in exams, of the complexity of it. And you've got, you know, the JCEQ awarding body regulations, and then you've got the students that you want to support. And it's, you know, you walk a very fine line a lot of times. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:20:14] It's so interesting that one of the interviews, interview questions, Paula, I use for new invigilators, which is a really tedious question, but I really enjoy seeing people's answer to it. I ask them this question of, you know, like, what's more important, following the JCEQ regulations, or ensuring, you know, a good, comfortable experience for the students? And obviously, like, the answer's both. But it's really interesting, because you do get some people

[00:20:43] who are, like, answer one way or the other on that. And it's like, that's like a massive red flag for me. But you're right, like, the balancing from the exams officer's point of view, like, and you're having to manage that whole thing, like, the balancing act of all that stuff, and being within a school, which are, they are environments where you have to be quite flexible, aren't they? Because there's a lot going on. And large numbers as well. Yeah. And I think a lot of people go into it, you know, and I've seen job ed by it, you know, it's nine till three. Well,

[00:21:14] you can't run an exam season on Nangel 3. No. God. Yeah, there's a lack of honesty about that, isn't there? I think. Like, it is, when you're in running exams, it's, I mean, my days are sometimes, like, basically six till six. And there isn't a lot of honesty about the fact that that is basically a requirement, isn't it? You can't really do the job unless you do that. And if you've got, yeah. And if you've got family commitments, so you're looking for a job that's nine to three,

[00:21:43] and then you start the exams, and it's not nine till three. Yeah. You're forced to maybe leave, because you can't do those long extended hours. Do you find that that's another, that's one of the reasons that you find that, um, some new exams officers feel like they have to leave, Paula? Yes, because the hours just don't work for them with a young family. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. I mean, we supported a centre recently, um, they just kept going out to advert, having new staff that was leaving.

[00:22:12] And we looked at the job adverts, one of the first things we do. They was advertising the job as nine to three, 10 time only, um, and no holidays outside of 10 time. Well, the job can't be done in nine till three during exam season. It's not 10 time only, because you've got a significant period over the summer holidays that you have to work for results. It's critical. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then we said, well, you know, if you're taking somebody's summer holiday off by three weeks,

[00:22:41] but then you're saying you can't have holidays out of 10 time, when are you expecting them to take those holidays? There has to be some flexibility. Yeah. Yeah. So if there's no exams running, whether it's internal or external, why can't they take annual leave if it meets the needs of the business at that time? This is one of my quite big bugbears. I'm probably going to edit this out because I'm going to talk about my employer now. But, um, one of the things that annoys me, so I, cause I'm a data manager as well.

[00:23:10] So I'm on a 52 week contract and I get, you know, whatever five weeks, six weeks of leave. Um, you see, I don't even know how much I get because. You definitely don't take it. I definitely don't take it. And, and, and the thing is the idea of having that kind of contract, like a full time contract is that you can take your leave when you want to take it. Except that, I mean, the windows in which I can actually take leave are so small. It's ridiculous, you know, because you can't really, you can't take the summer, like you say,

[00:23:39] cause you've got to do that. Um, there are massive periods of the year where obviously in the buildup to exams and while exams are running, you can't take leave. And then also as a data manager, I have all these reporting deadlines at the end of term. So you can't really take leave then either. So it's just like you're left with these tiny little windows of time. So what you need is employers to be flexible or flexible. Or to be more flexible during term time. Which is what yours is like. Or to give you the impression that they're absolutely comfortable with you taking leave during term time.

[00:24:09] Which is not the impression that I often get. Yeah. I can see why that must be very hard for new exams officers who come in and they think they're going to be able to work in a certain way. And then they're just not. Yeah. That's so interesting about the family thing, Paula. It's not, I mean, I'd always thought of like the retention problem being in, like you said, the lack of support and training and, and the lack of like knowledge about what, what the role involves, um, like on a, on a technical level. But I think there's that thing, isn't there,

[00:24:39] of like, um, you hear exams officers say this quite a lot of like people just describing their job as like just admin. So it's like, you're basically just an admin support worker. And of course, if you're an admin support worker and you can be relatively flexible, then nine to three might work for you. But it, exams is just not like that at all. And it's the amount of hours you've got to work as well during the exam season. Even experienced exams officers, like you said, John, work very long days.

[00:25:07] So how do staff get those hours back? Yeah. You wouldn't expect other staff within other roles in the school to work unpaid. Yeah. But you hear of exam staff that have a huge amount of hours at the end of the summer season that they're not getting overtime for and they're not getting time off in lieu. Yeah. Um, and somebody who wrote a blog for us recently said, you know, she always says to new exams officers, are you a registered charity? You know, nobody else is expected to work for free.

[00:25:37] So why are you working for free? Yeah. It's about having that conversation as well. But again, it goes back to communication because some people might not feel confident yet to have that conversation with their employers about the hours that they're having to work. Yeah. Well, how much of a variation do you see, Paula, in that? I think that confidence thing's a big thing.

[00:25:58] So like how much variation do you see in among exams officers of their willingness and confidence to talk to senior management and to make requests and even, dare I say, demands from the senior leaders? I think experienced exams officers, yes, when we have our conversations with those, you know, they've got those years experience so they can go and say, you know, I've got those years experience.

[00:26:25] But new exams officers that are suddenly starting a job, it's not working out how they thought there was, they're working more hours and not having support. They're apprehensive and some of them will find another job and just leave to go to it rather than having that conversation with somebody because they feel that they don't know the job. So they don't feel that they can have the conversation about how it's impacting on them. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

[00:26:52] And I guess the networking bit then is important as well, isn't it? Because then you get a sense of how it was working for other people too. So you can compare almost, can't you, a little bit. Like I'm always struck by the variation when I speak to other exams officers of like the condition, like even things like salary, like can vary wildly, can't it? Yeah. Yeah. We helped college last summer recruit to a position, director of exams,

[00:27:20] assistant director of exams that was paying nearly £60,000. But then you see exams officers roles go in and they're on the minimum wage. horrific. Sometimes it makes me really angry when I see people have like posted a job advert, like, or they've seen a job advert somewhere and they've posted it for an exams officer. It's like £19,000 or something like that. And I'm just like, you cannot be serious. That's quite a variance, isn't it? Yeah. But at the low end, it's ridiculous. Like that's ridiculous. Yeah.

[00:27:50] I saw a recruitment agency on Indeed the other day saying they wanted somebody on a temporary basis, an exams officer. They said £100 per day. Wow. And I thought, well, I'm sure you must be paying less than the minimum wage if you work out what hour you're actually going. Yeah. Yeah. That's mad. So what about the effort? Sorry. Sorry. Go on, Paula. We can't do anything about sort of salaries, I think just because, you know, as we all know,

[00:28:17] the education sector is massively underfunded, but we can look at other areas to sort of maintain and get more people involved in exams and more people applying for the exams officer role. Yeah. I was going to say, so are there any other big reasons why you think there is such a kind of high churn of new exams officers and what you think can be done in addition to kind of better training and support and transparency, I guess, particularly in advertising.

[00:28:46] Is there anything else that you think would be good? No, I think if you're getting the right people through the door, the right people applying that know about the role and then you're training and supporting them, you can see significant progress. You know, we've certainly had people that we've appointed when we're doing sort of our recruitment service that don't have any experience, but have what we've seen as transferable skills.

[00:29:13] They've gone on to have huge success in the world and been really happy. That's fantastic. That's great. Paula, just one more question, I think, before we finish. So, we like to talk a little bit about the future. I mean, we don't, we pretend that we know stuff we don't really, but we like to have it, like, you know, kind of ruminate a little bit on the future. And so, I was wondering if you were to take your crystal ball and look maybe five or six years forward,

[00:29:43] what do you think the role of an exams officer will look like? Will it be pretty much the same as it is now? Or do you think it will look different in some ways? Well, there's lots of talk, as you know, about moving assessment and exams online, how that will impact on the exams officer role. But I can't really see that happening within the next five or six years. I don't think there's the funding or the resources available in a lot of schools to buy the computers,

[00:30:11] the laptops that are needed for all students to be able to take their exams. I mean, access arrangements, we've seen a huge rise in access arrangements over the last few years. And I think that will continue to grow over the next few years. So, there'll be more awareness of students who need a reader, scribe, coloured paper, that type of thing. And I think just because of the way of the world, more on malpractice,

[00:30:40] certainly as well with AI and the way AI is being introduced, and students access and use of AI, that's certainly something that we'll be keeping our eye open for, and how that impacts on students taking exams. Yeah, that's interesting. So, more complex, basically. Yes. Brilliant. No, that's right. I'm sure you're, I'm sure you're correct about all those things, Paula, to be honest. So, Paula,

[00:31:06] could you just let our listeners know where they can find out more about you, and where they can contact you to find out more? So, I'm on LinkedIn. So, if you just put Paula Wood on LinkedIn, or if you want to visit our website, if you just put into Google, exam offices and data solutions limited, that'll take you to our website, and that has all the contact details, and a contact form on there. And we also have our online communities. So, if you're on LinkedIn or Facebook,

[00:31:35] and you want access to our free online communities, you can find us on there as well, exam offices network. That's fabulous. Thank you so much, Paula. It's been really, really fascinating speaking to you. Really interesting to talk to you. Right. Thank you both as well for your time. Thank you so much for listening to the Exam Man podcast. We really, really appreciate your support. Remember that you can access it on all the major podcast platforms. Give us a rating, give us a follow,

[00:32:04] and we will catch you next time.