Over The Hump

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to The Exam Man podcast. I'm your host John Gaston and I'm here with

[00:00:32] my co-host Sophie Gaston. Hello. Hi Soph, how you doing? Yeah good, good. Yeah just a lot

[00:00:39] of rain for half term. Gosh yeah. Normally at this time of year it's a bit nicer than

[00:00:45] this isn't it? Yeah grim, grim. But it is half term which is a good thing. Yeah it's

[00:00:51] lovely. And we're having a little bit of a break, a little bit of a rest and we thought

[00:00:57] this week with the podcast that we would... I think we didn't actually talk about exams

[00:01:01] for possibly two days. Yeah two whole days I reckon, Saturday and Sunday. I slept

[00:01:08] for a lot of Saturday and then we didn't really talk about exams at all. No, Sunday

[00:01:12] all Monday I think. No. Which is yeah a first. So John what we're gonna talk about this week?

[00:01:18] Because you haven't got any exams to reflect on have you? No, no I haven't got any stressful

[00:01:23] stories to recount so we're gonna do something a little bit different this week which is

[00:01:29] we're gonna sort of take stock of where we've got to with the podcast because we've

[00:01:35] been on quite an amazing journey over the last sort of ten weeks. It's been very intense

[00:01:40] but a lot of fun as well and we've learned an awful lot. So we're gonna talk a bit about

[00:01:47] what we have learned and what we've enjoyed and also look forward a bit to where we get

[00:01:53] sort of going next with the sort of episodes we're gonna be doing coming up. We had a

[00:01:59] brilliant response to Hayley's interview last week. It really seemed to resonate. I think it really came at the right time didn't it?

[00:02:06] Yeah it did. We actually interviewed her just before the exam season so she has been in touch this week and she sent us a little update about how she's getting on.

[00:02:17] Good afternoon John and Sophie. I hope you're both well. As promised I thought I would check in

[00:02:25] let you know how I'm getting on. Nearly at half term now. Dragging myself to half term

[00:02:32] but I thought I would tell you something that was actually really funny that made me laugh today.

[00:02:37] So in our invigilator announcement as you know at the beginning of every exam you have to play

[00:02:43] the announcement or read out an announcement. I actually recorded ours so the invigilators

[00:02:51] could just literally press it and they could carry on. It's almost like when you're on an

[00:02:55] airplane and they're playing out the safety check message and then the cabin crew carry on

[00:03:01] that's how I see it. Anyway so at the end of my announcement that I recorded I always say a

[00:03:10] little bit at the end and at the minute it says something like good luck do your best we know

[00:03:16] you can do it and that's how it ends. It always ends on a positive a little bit of like

[00:03:22] a positive affirmation good luck do your best you can do it and anyway so a student came

[00:03:30] into the room late and the invigilator had to obviously read the announcement to them outside

[00:03:35] the room and obviously where they read it out they didn't obviously say the bit at the end so

[00:03:41] the invigilator said like have you got any questions to this student and the student was

[00:03:46] like well you haven't finished and so the invigilator was like what do you mean? So he

[00:03:52] said well in the announcement it says good luck do your best you can do it and you

[00:03:58] haven't just said that to me. It shows that they actually listen to that and they take on board

[00:04:04] what I say and maybe that little bit at the end is giving them that push to know they can do

[00:04:09] their best. I hope you're both well I hope everybody that's doing exams is okay we're

[00:04:16] nearly at half term and yeah we need that week's rest but anyway take care speak soon.

[00:04:23] I really liked the comparison she made there between the invigilator announcement and the

[00:04:30] safety announcement on a plane because I feel like over time during the exam season it gets a

[00:04:34] similar kind of level of attention from the students. They know that they should be

[00:04:41] listening to it and they are half listening to it but they also kind of know it off by heart

[00:04:45] as well. So yeah we've had a little bit of action on the invigilator announcement as well

[00:04:53] on YouTube in episode two we told you we were posting a new one with Soph's voice on it

[00:04:58] before she'd had some derogatory comments on the old one. So the comments are starting

[00:05:06] again it's not as good unfortunately no no it's not personal not as personal no no not

[00:05:12] as vicious but there are comments there nonetheless so please please go and check them out.

[00:05:26] So yeah we're going to just do a bit of a reflection aren't we just think about

[00:05:31] what we kind of why we decided to do the podcast and kind of what we've done so far

[00:05:35] first really so we had definitely had a few topics we really wanted to talk about didn't

[00:05:40] we yes remember when we were first discussing I think I can't remember about 30 topics

[00:05:43] we made a list of around 30 yeah yeah and that immediately sprung to mind but what what's

[00:05:49] I think is really exciting is that lots of other stuff has come up through it so the fact

[00:05:53] that we ended up doing one around jobs exams officers have done before that wasn't something

[00:05:57] that we'd even thought about and then every time we were talking to someone they would just

[00:06:02] end up like Rebecca just dropping in the shoe as a tax inspector. I think one of the things

[00:06:07] that's come up for me like throughout this whole thing is is this idea of like what sort of person

[00:06:14] yeah becomes exams officer obviously not all exams officers are the same they're all

[00:06:19] different but trying to sort of think about what might be the common thread

[00:06:23] the things that kind of you know we notice in all of the people that we interview

[00:06:30] there's some common yeah I sort of I think I've hit on a couple of things

[00:06:37] I think the ability to to remain calm in stressful situations I think is a big one

[00:06:44] you can't not really know you know just completely lose it yeah in an exam if something

[00:06:49] goes wrong so I guess you have to be absolutely absolutely and I think a sort of focus on

[00:06:55] in the moment what matters so like you're in doing quite a complex job where lots of

[00:07:00] things could go wrong and sometimes you have to decide between okay what am I going to focus on

[00:07:05] right now what matters because there might be another fire over there somewhere that I know

[00:07:09] I'm going to have to put out but it might not be the most important one so that ability to

[00:07:15] to kind of prioritize to remain calm and I think the other thing is you know kind of

[00:07:21] attention to detail so obviously Rebecca was a tax inspector and Hayley had been a police

[00:07:27] officer both jobs which require exceptional attention to detail I think that's really

[00:07:32] really important as well so it's kind of a mix of skills which is is not sort of like

[00:07:39] that common I don't know also coming up a bit which I've certainly noticed in you over

[00:07:45] the years and it's maybe making me chuckle and when talking to everyone in these interviews

[00:07:50] is how many exams officers that we've spoken to have said equally how much they can't like

[00:07:57] it's such an incredible amount of pressure but actually they love it yeah one of the

[00:08:03] the interesting things that I think I've sort of seen over the years as well is that you

[00:08:09] do see quite a lot of people saying like I've had enough of this it's ridiculous the amount

[00:08:15] of pressure and stress I'm not sufficiently remunerated for this

[00:08:21] but I do think that often underlying that is a kind of masochism as well that like people

[00:08:27] I mean I think those things are all true but I do think that there are there is a certain

[00:08:31] type of person who does this that weirdly slightly enjoys that I was speaking to someone

[00:08:36] in my school the other day and she was like you've got a week off now you you

[00:08:42] probably really need the break don't you and I was like I just sort of jokingly said

[00:08:47] oh you know like I love this it's my favourite part of the year and she said to me you're only

[00:08:52] half lying aren't you yeah so is that sense of like although this does seem a bit ridiculous

[00:08:58] at times you do kind of enjoy it beforehand isn't it yeah yeah and I just wanted to talk

[00:09:04] as well about something about the podcast one of the reasons that we wanted to do it just

[00:09:09] following on from what you were saying because I think that exams officers aren't necessarily

[00:09:16] sure of the ability to communicate with one another and get support so we didn't really do

[00:09:22] it for that reason it wasn't about thinking oh there's a complete lack of support amongst

[00:09:29] the exams officers and we need to try and offer that because there are you know networks

[00:09:34] there are things online where exams officers get together and actually I think they're very

[00:09:38] well networked as a kind of profession to each other yeah but one of the things that I felt was

[00:09:45] kind of broader visibility so exams officers being able to feel like people outside of that

[00:09:53] little community know what they're doing yeah and appreciate it yeah one of the lessons

[00:09:59] that I learned very early on when we started doing exam screen was that people really loved

[00:10:07] it and people said to me thank you for doing this like for exams officers and I didn't really

[00:10:13] get that at the time because I was like yeah yeah I like you know it's a good thing whatever but

[00:10:18] like the idea that it was like I'd really done something for people I did I just didn't

[00:10:24] really get that at all it was a in my mind it was like a useful product but I think

[00:10:29] what I realized through talking to people was that the thing about exam screen was it is

[00:10:35] visible so if you imagine yourself as a professional innovating in your job so you do

[00:10:42] something new a lot of the time because exams officers what they do is so kind of behind the

[00:10:47] scenes you could be innovating away and nobody would ever notice and the thing that was great

[00:10:54] about exam screen for exams officers was that they were innovating and everybody could see it

[00:10:58] because it was up there in the exam hall yeah so inspectors everyone to see head teachers you know

[00:11:04] the kids everyone's seeing that you're doing an innovative job and I think that really sort of

[00:11:10] put me on the path of like visibility is the thing that exams officers really feel they're

[00:11:15] lacking and so the podcast was another way that we sort of felt that we could

[00:11:21] perhaps enhance that and one of the really gratifying things has been that our audience

[00:11:26] is you know a very significant chunk of it is exams officers but it's been much broader than

[00:11:32] that and I'm really pleased because I think some of the some of the things that you know

[00:11:38] not just in the interviews that we've we've you know actually published as part of episodes

[00:11:45] the podcast but we've had many other conversations with people yeah as well and and it's been

[00:11:52] just fantastic it's so interesting yeah and the stories about how they've come to do it but what

[00:11:57] what they love about it what they find difficult yeah it's been quite quite really great actually

[00:12:03] to be able to put a lot of that out there and so just for a broader reach and we've had

[00:12:07] lots of lovely feedback from parents you know as Sanders episode where he was talking about

[00:12:14] revision and lots from students and parents about how much that helped them and I think

[00:12:19] you know that they might have been people who might have only engaged with an exam exams from

[00:12:24] that perspective and not really thought much at all yeah unless they were you know applied

[00:12:29] for special consideration yeah I might not have come across so I think like as part of the

[00:12:35] push to make what we do as a job more visible we are actually providing a kind of secondary

[00:12:41] service as well which is to kind of open the box a little bit in terms of what goes

[00:12:47] how exams work what goes on and from a parental student point of view a lot that information can

[00:12:53] be very useful as well so that's why we obviously we wanted to do the episode with

[00:12:57] sander but also why we decided to do that episode on special consideration as well because we're

[00:13:02] very aware at this point in time that is something that people would want to understand

[00:13:08] that process and it's one that I don't think people do understand very well I think that's

[00:13:13] true both of parents obviously because they'll be coming to it for the first time

[00:13:17] and but also within schools I actually don't think people always understand the special

[00:13:22] consideration process that well so yeah so I guess we're trying to sort of kill two

[00:13:30] birds with one stone you know we're trying to make the role of the exams officer more

[00:13:34] visible and talk about it but also we're trying to kind of lift a little bit by doing

[00:13:39] that on you know exams and more generally and how they work and bringing other people into the

[00:13:44] conversation definitely so so when we started doing this podcast we obviously decided to do

[00:13:58] it the two of us rather than just me talking about exams but there was a good reason for

[00:14:04] that wasn't there because we thought we sort of wanted to introduce the perspective of someone

[00:14:08] who didn't work in exams and who was able to see it from the outside and ask questions

[00:14:14] yeah but I was also curious as to what you're what you've sort of learned that you didn't know

[00:14:20] before from from doing this podcast yeah I think um I've learned a lot actually and um

[00:14:29] I mean really I should have just listened to you more over the last

[00:14:36] I actually understand your job more which I know you've talked to me about all the time

[00:14:40] yeah I've learned a lot from the other interviewees it's interesting though can I just stop you there

[00:14:44] because I guess like any couple like you never really you never really listen and also yeah

[00:14:51] there is that old thing isn't there people come in tired at the end of the day and

[00:14:56] someone says how's your day and then they don't listen yeah and actually to really sit

[00:15:01] down I've really really realized that I just haven't listened to you for over a decade

[00:15:05] so sorry no that's not entirely true but I've definitely um it's been very interesting for me

[00:15:11] to see the common theme that you know that I thought was specific to kind of you and your

[00:15:15] school and your role um be very much played out in nearly all the conversations we've had

[00:15:20] that's been really interesting but I think um my perspective I guess is because obviously

[00:15:25] I'm not an exams officer but I work in the area of exams through exam screen with you

[00:15:32] so I have a bit more of perspective than most people my background is in education myself so

[00:15:37] I understand schools very well um and I'm quite ashamed to admit that and I've really realized

[00:15:43] we're doing this that even working as a teacher working as assistant head in schools I didn't

[00:15:49] understand what the exams officers were doing even being married to an exam yeah sorry yeah

[00:15:54] Nicole my exams officer at my last school um and I just didn't know what they were doing

[00:15:59] really in practice and I should have been far more I don't think I was ever

[00:16:03] obstructive or not interested it was it wasn't the area that um I was working with but

[00:16:08] I still didn't quite get the pressure yeah um that they were under um and that's quite

[00:16:15] interesting now looking back and I think um one of the things I also keep reflecting on I

[00:16:22] think I've thought this before but it's become really clear over the last few weeks and more

[00:16:27] I've spoken to the people that we we've worked with um with exams going over the last few years

[00:16:32] is I just don't understand the job title no seriously I really don't and I think because in

[00:16:39] um the the other work that I'm doing where I'm talking to a lot of school leaders and

[00:16:44] mat leaders every day I understand a lot about leadership roles in education

[00:16:51] and I I just cannot get over about the scope of the role of an exams officer and the

[00:16:59] the title and titles in education whether you like this or not matter a lot so in terms of career

[00:17:06] salary and everything it really it really matters at a leadership level yeah um it's

[00:17:13] you know it's a lot about you know what what job you're going to do next and how you can

[00:17:17] and I'm just really surprised about where exams officers fit in that within schools

[00:17:22] because now I know a lot more um I have been really really surprised about the level of

[00:17:29] responsibility is the responsibility aspect of it yeah that compared to some leadership roles

[00:17:34] in schools is actually very similar yeah um even more cases yeah even more and it obviously

[00:17:40] depends on your school and your setup but we've certainly spoken to people who who have

[00:17:44] more responsibility than some of the you know leadership teams so I think the word officer

[00:17:51] I think um just doesn't um doesn't tell you what the job does and I think personally that's

[00:17:58] why a lot of people don't really underestimate the role yeah so I'm on a bit of a mission to

[00:18:06] find out why it's called example because it's a leadership it's a very good point and I think

[00:18:12] there are tons of people who would agree with you and I know there are and actually

[00:18:16] in a lot of schools the sort of official job your official job title so mine I am

[00:18:22] the exam manager I'm not within my school I'm called a exam manager um I remember like you

[00:18:30] often see this actually um when new exams officers come in they'll often say what's

[00:18:35] the difference between exams officer and exam manager you know and it's like there's no

[00:18:39] difference the difference is whether or not more exams officer is definitely more confident

[00:18:44] well exams officer is the generic term yeah so that's the term that exam boards use

[00:18:49] and that's kind of crucial really um so and obviously we have a professional body that is

[00:18:56] the national association of exams officers sorry if my campaign would mean they'd have

[00:19:00] to change their name yeah but um I totally agree with you I think that I think it's all

[00:19:09] perception isn't it and and it's it's um it doesn't reflect an officer is like is like

[00:19:15] someone who doesn't have to do things like manage a team of like potentially 30 well

[00:19:22] an officer role to me yeah um well number one there's not there's not that many officer

[00:19:27] roles in schools it's not like that sir but there are other roles that are quite

[00:19:32] um that are officers in schools that are just not this not the same in terms of level of

[00:19:38] leadership and management um but I think you've got to come back to that with the

[00:19:43] responsibility factor I think that's that's the big thing that's not reflected in pay or

[00:19:49] yeah I think that's why some schools have rebranded the role yeah and I think I see

[00:19:54] I have started to notice a slight change I would say in the in generally in salaries I

[00:20:01] think getting a lot better and starting to reflect more the scope of the role still not

[00:20:06] great I don't think but better than we were a few years ago you don't see so I don't see so many

[00:20:11] job adverts where I'm like that's just disgusting like in terms of the the pay that's being

[00:20:17] advertised and there's more there's a lot of schools that have like a sole exams officer

[00:20:20] just doing that role recognizing that it's a very big job like Rebecca mentioned that didn't

[00:20:25] she in her interview that she really really respects schools that you know that's your one

[00:20:28] job because it's big enough yeah you know it should be a full time well the other thing that

[00:20:33] we touched on in our interviews with Marina and with Simon as well was the fact that

[00:20:37] the role used to be part it used to be an SLT responsibility so you used to my experience

[00:20:43] my first school I taught with Marina yeah was um it was an SLT role and so I think that's why

[00:20:49] it's a bit of a bug because I've had it I have that in my head yeah and um I just think

[00:20:54] it's um and uh I don't want to say this because I'm going to compliment you here John

[00:20:59] but I genuinely genuinely think um that it is an incredible job and I'm saying this as someone

[00:21:07] who would be absolutely appalling at it because everything you describe the attention to okay why

[00:21:12] would you be appalling why would you be appalling you shouldn't need to ask what no no what are

[00:21:17] the things that okay um because this might be useful for someone who's thinking about whether

[00:21:22] or not they should become an AT&T officer yeah I think that um meticulous attention to detail

[00:21:28] um yeah is you know something that I I would uh can I ask you a question do you think Marina

[00:21:36] has meticulous attention to detail yeah she's a bit of an all-round yeah she's the person who

[00:21:42] gives off that she doesn't but she actually does doesn't she yeah yeah yeah she's my she

[00:21:47] went to uni at 16 mass yeah she's actually happy for me to tell her from that um and um

[00:21:54] but basically yeah I think um I yeah that would be very hard for me um I think when

[00:22:01] when it was it was Amy we were talking about the aesthetics of lining up the desks

[00:22:06] yeah I genuinely didn't really understand what you're talking about that's not critical

[00:22:09] to the role you don't have to appreciate this but there's something in that isn't it the

[00:22:13] appreciation of like um detail um and and also um I think one of the things that I personally find

[00:22:23] found quite difficult working in schools so if I think about the roles that I've done in and out

[00:22:29] of schools um and I've always worked in education but the the role that I've the roles that I do

[00:22:35] have done inside of schools I've got quite bored of the fact that you do the same thing

[00:22:38] every year so um and that's just a personal that's a personal fault of my I really admire

[00:22:44] people that can do it because that was something that I was getting a bit like the you know the

[00:22:49] term cycles of this I'll be teaching this at this time of year and then next year

[00:22:55] yeah just didn't really suit me I need a bit more variety and I get I can get a bit

[00:23:01] but it's interesting because we were talking last episode about all the different jobs I'd

[00:23:05] done before I became an exams officer and before I did take on the exams job I think I would have

[00:23:11] said that I was like that as well I would have said that I was someone who gets bored easily

[00:23:16] who who you know can't stand the repetition and obviously I've now been doing this job

[00:23:22] for 12 years and I have I've been doing the same thing every single year you know like the

[00:23:28] same cycle so every year and um and I think what I've realized that what I the the thing

[00:23:35] that I was missing before was the scent was the success bit so the thing where you like

[00:23:42] you complete something and it's done and you've like really taken it from the start of process

[00:23:49] to the end of process and it's tangible and you can see it's completed and it's been

[00:23:53] successful that I think is something I never really had in jobs before they were always too

[00:23:58] intangible and um and I think that's the thing that's kept me in it and kept me interested

[00:24:04] you know like the whole time I did I did say as well in the Covid episode I think that it

[00:24:08] was quite good to have like in a way a little break for a couple of years and do it

[00:24:13] differently um and for all the other terrible things about Covid that was like one positive

[00:24:21] because it's just broken up the last 12 years and I genuinely do think it is an amazing I think

[00:24:26] uh yeah yeah especially people to be able to do it because it is that meticulous attention

[00:24:31] to detail it's all that stuff that I think I'd find quite difficult and you know you are a

[00:24:36] bit of a perfectionist and I think that that sort of trait comes out in in the people that

[00:24:40] we talk to as well which I am not so um yeah you can definitely see these these things but

[00:24:46] the other thing that I think is really that you have to be really good at in this role um

[00:24:51] that makes people who do this job really special if you do it well it you know as an observer

[00:24:58] is that you have to be incredible with people and you have to be incredible with people

[00:25:04] right in the really widest you're not just working with a team or you're not just working

[00:25:09] um you know with it with a group of you know like I mainly work with leaders in schools

[00:25:14] it's very specific you are working with students so you have to have authority and compassion

[00:25:21] and understanding of students which is a skill set in itself and people you know like me have

[00:25:26] spent years training to be good at working with teenagers but you're not and you just

[00:25:30] go in and do it and I think um that's incredible but then it's also being able

[00:25:35] to manage teams of invigilators which we're going to do an episode on aren't we

[00:25:39] before the end because that is I mean that's a really big part of your job and um I think

[00:25:46] the fact the exams officer have to manage people of all ages of all different skill sets

[00:25:51] you're managing the expectations of SLT you're dealing with inspections

[00:25:56] you're dealing then you're dealing with external agencies you're dealing with people

[00:25:59] who work in offices who have very different um demands on you and then you occasionally

[00:26:04] have to deal with parents yeah um and complaints and I think that there's not many jobs where

[00:26:10] you have to do that and I think that's why it's special because it's not just um

[00:26:16] yeah and that's why I think the job title doesn't work and you kind of have to do it

[00:26:20] kind of on your own as well I mean there was a time in the past where I think you know

[00:26:25] the job was even a little bit bigger because we used to have modular exams um and a lot

[00:26:32] of exams officers then used to have an assistant as well but as exams got um you know a terminal

[00:26:38] assessment came back in then those have tended to go some schools still have examinations

[00:26:43] assistant but I don't think that many now so most exams officers now are quite solitary

[00:26:48] in what they do so like you say you've got you've got to work with this huge range and

[00:26:53] array of people um but you don't really have that much of a structure around you you've got

[00:27:00] your line manager that and you better hope that your line manager is good yeah uh and I'm

[00:27:06] very lucky very lucky no not everyone is but I am quite lucky in our respect but aside from that

[00:27:12] you know there's not a huge amount of scaffolding like around you they're quite exposed

[00:27:17] you know that's another thing that I think has come up in the interviews that

[00:27:21] kind of new from talking to you and obviously um chatting with other exams officers but

[00:27:26] to hear how much it's come up in I think every single interview and conversation we've had

[00:27:32] since we started doing the podcast is around um just the fear of something going wrong because

[00:27:38] it's so massive yeah you know too detrimental to a student's life um then you've got the

[00:27:45] expense incurred at the first schools which is really shocking the number of text messages

[00:27:49] I've had off people after that episode where we talked about how much that costs of people

[00:27:53] who have no nothing about exams who listen to it and we're like what how can it cost that much

[00:27:59] and I think um that that's big that's a lot to deal with and manage yeah the budget is an

[00:28:04] interesting thing in a school because um how big is the budget so our our i-manager budget

[00:28:11] there's probably I would say it fluctuates from year to year but right now is is about 120

[00:28:16] thousand pounds um per year so that is a very large budget within a school that is a

[00:28:25] sizable departmental budget but it's a strange budget because it's not one that you control

[00:28:30] in the way that you might control another budget you're not given an amount of money and then

[00:28:34] it's your you have to then manage how that's spent because you know the exam entries are

[00:28:40] the exam entries you just have to enter whatever you need and so whatever gets spent

[00:28:45] is based on that so it's a very fluid budget that but it is enormous and it's like if you

[00:28:51] make mistakes then you're talking about large amounts of money um I when we talked to Simon

[00:28:58] we had a little laugh and joke and we talked about the head of center and I said it was like

[00:29:03] a ceremonial role it's an interesting one that because I think one of the reasons going

[00:29:07] back to talking about why it's called an exams officer is the idea that you're not actually

[00:29:13] the ultimate point of responsibility at the exam center it's the head of center who is

[00:29:19] but I think one of the fears that I think a lot of exams officers probably carry with them

[00:29:24] is that that never really gets tested until something really bad happens and at that point

[00:29:31] you don't know how things would play out so um and you could also say that about I mean it

[00:29:37] is a very there is a very specific head of center role um in terms in relation to exams

[00:29:42] where the head has a specific responsibility but heads are ultimately responsible are responsible

[00:29:48] for nearly all aspects of what happens in a school yeah so that's not particularly different

[00:29:54] yeah it's almost like a moot point in a way I think it's like yeah it's just one of many

[00:29:59] many many things exactly so I don't think that really waters down the sense in which

[00:30:04] you feel ultimately responsible yeah and I don't think I'm not um I'm being the opposite of

[00:30:11] critical really I think it's that's why it's a great brilliant job um and I know yeah how

[00:30:18] school budgets um yeah are complicated beasts and you know it has been a pretty low paid job

[00:30:27] for the amount of responsibilities for many years and you know that might be why it's

[00:30:31] kept as as an exams officer sort of type but it's just not reflective and I'm just not sure

[00:30:37] that exams officers in schools are being used to their full potential um in terms of their

[00:30:44] understanding of the school yeah um and yeah you think they could bring more to like an

[00:30:51] associate slt role management strategy strategic direction of the school that sort of thing

[00:30:56] absolutely yeah I think in some cases that's and having worked in a school where

[00:31:01] the exams officer role was on the slt and then one where it wasn't yeah um I can really have

[00:31:07] seen that difference and I think it's just that that wide perspective um and also also

[00:31:14] your ability to pivot when things change like in covid you know the skill set that you know

[00:31:22] you brought in your school meant that they were instantly right who's running who's running the

[00:31:26] vaccination program well it's obviously the exams officer and the invigilators because they

[00:31:30] can do that they can change they've got they've got a setup and they can work and I think um yeah

[00:31:35] I just I just always yeah that's my perspective I think I've learned well I don't think anyone

[00:31:40] out there will be unhappy to hear you say that we should be paid more and be given more

[00:31:44] recognition the decisions yeah no I think it's all fair and and um it's more often the case

[00:31:53] that you're talking to people who have a wide range of skills and often quite a wide range

[00:31:58] of experience as well like yeah like we found out um and I think yeah the the notion that

[00:32:04] they might be I mean the I guess the the counterpoint to that is that the other thing

[00:32:09] that we hear is that they're working very hard and so the idea that they'll be free to

[00:32:15] offer more I'm not I'm not convinced but um but certainly you know like there are people

[00:32:22] who have things to offer to schools and there are people who should be in the loop

[00:32:26] yeah for important conversations and things like that I think that's definitely true yeah

[00:32:30] yeah so so John because uh yeah what's next okay yeah so when you're back back in exams

[00:32:45] yeah we're doing a few interviews um over the weekend isn't it because um realizing that doing

[00:32:50] interviews and recording and everything else is quite a lot yeah it all got a little bit I

[00:32:55] think like week one of exams it all got a little bit crazy but um but yeah we're trying

[00:32:59] to start stay ahead of the game here a little bit so as we said at the beginning we're

[00:33:02] doing a few interviews over the next couple of days um so um yeah we've got some good episodes

[00:33:08] coming up I think um so next week uh we are going to be um talking to one of the exam

[00:33:15] boards yeah which is something that we said right at the beginning we wanted to do definitely

[00:33:19] um and we're really excited that we we've got that opportunity like I think it's you

[00:33:24] know obviously um the exam boards and exams officers have to work closely together and so

[00:33:30] um everything we can do to sort of foster that understanding yeah about how the boards work

[00:33:36] about how they work yeah what are the plans any any you know future plans going on will be

[00:33:41] really interesting to hear from that perspective yeah absolutely um and then the week after that

[00:33:45] we're going to be looking exam exams in sort of specialist um environments quite broad that

[00:33:52] yeah so um we are going to be talking to a special school yeah uh and we are also

[00:33:59] we hope going to be talking to a private exam centre as well yeah to look at the sorts of

[00:34:05] clear and tell that they get and the sort of differences between running a private exam centre

[00:34:10] and running exams in a school yeah um so I hope that will that will offer an interesting

[00:34:16] perspective as well yeah and if anyone um listening um because because we know

[00:34:21] from talking to lots of exams officers that they seem to have lots of experience in prisons and

[00:34:25] prison yeah it was anyone wants to talk about that we'd probably who we mentioned in our last

[00:34:30] episode had talked about that she'd worked in prisons and I think someone else sort of

[00:34:34] responded to her saying the same yeah so we'd be really interested to hear from any any

[00:34:39] exams officers who have experience of exams or anyone else actually who has experience of exams

[00:34:43] in prison yeah and just have a quick chat with us that would be really helpful but looking

[00:34:47] forward to that yeah absolutely and then um then we're sort of getting towards the end of the

[00:34:53] exam season um uh we're certainly going to do one episode with some of my invigilators

[00:34:59] um they know yeah they don't yet no no they don't have a choice do they no I'm gonna spring

[00:35:04] it on them I always bring things on them at the end because everyone's in such a good

[00:35:08] mood yeah I don't tell them now when they're sort of in the mire um but um yeah and and

[00:35:13] then once we sort of finish the exam season we're we're going to take a bit of a break

[00:35:18] for a bit aren't we yeah um and we're going to call that a cool time on season one yeah um but

[00:35:23] we are looking to the future with with what we're going to do with the podcast next as well

[00:35:29] yeah a few people have asked us about it so we've really got our thinking caps on way over

[00:35:32] yeah last day or so um and our plan basically is as John said wrap up uh this will be season

[00:35:40] one um at the end of the exam season um and then we will be back in the autumn term and

[00:35:47] I mean it seems a little bit mad that we're doing this coinciding with you actually running

[00:35:52] exams but that was sort of the point was that we were sort of reflecting um you know you as

[00:35:58] you go through it as well um kind of in solidarity together so I think we're gonna

[00:36:03] continue that slightly mad theme because it does mean life is quite mad during those periods

[00:36:07] yeah but a lot of fun so we're going to pick it back up in the autumn yeah definitely yeah and

[00:36:11] we're going to obviously we'll continue to speak to exams officers because that's always really

[00:36:15] interesting really fruitful uh but we talked about the list of 30 things that we've written

[00:36:20] down so so we've got a lot of um other topics that we want to people get in touch with um

[00:36:25] from inside and outside schools about um topics about that they'd like to see covered around

[00:36:32] exams um so we will definitely factor those in for the for the autumn season too and the

[00:36:37] other thing is that we're also going to have one off the occasional one-off yeah special

[00:36:43] episodes should anything exciting or calamitous happen in the world of exams or assessment

[00:36:50] hopefully not the latter um then we will do sort of emergency podcast episodes but

[00:36:55] yeah we'll come and tell you yeah I think so and I think if we have like something that

[00:37:00] we feels really pressing and we want to get out there then then we're not going to wait around

[00:37:04] till the autumn will we'll put out we'll put out a special so our board plan is to have um a

[00:37:09] couple of seasons a year during the exam yes yeah so please as well um do make sure that

[00:37:14] you follow our podcast on whatever um podcasting platform you're using because that way you will

[00:37:21] get access to our to whatever episodes we put out um we'll obviously let you know as

[00:37:26] well through our other channels that we're doing it um but um yeah so we're sort of uh well

[00:37:32] we're not a halfway point are we we're sort of quite a way through yeah season one now but um

[00:37:37] it feels like we're like kind of just over the top of a mountain over the hump going down

[00:37:42] yeah let's hope so there's still a few weeks of exams to go yeah I'm not I'm not relaxing

[00:37:47] just yet um but it's been a real pleasure doing it and fascinating experience and just

[00:37:52] anything like where you get to talk to some people you've never met before and um and

[00:37:58] get their perspective on things it's just been it's been really fun isn't it

[00:38:07] thank you so much for listening to the exam man podcast we really really appreciate your

[00:38:10] support remember that you can access it on all the major podcast platforms

[00:38:15] give us a rating give us a follow and we will catch you next time

[00:38:22] so